Andrew Bull 0:00
Welcome to another episode of the interstellar business Show. I’m your host, Andrew Bull. Today’s episode is all about business communication. Well, actually, that’s a bit vague. It’s about something more specific than that. It’s about public speaking in business. Let me ask you, would you like to be able to give a knockout sales presentation, would you like to be able to inspire your team through your choice of words, and you control of your voice and your message, perhaps you’d like to be able to impress on the next date you have, or be able to more clearly communicate to your friends and family. Whatever you want to do with your voice and how you talk and how you communicate through the words that you say, public speaking, is the key, in today’s episode, are going to be joined by Brendan, who’s an expert, nae a leader in public speaking. And he’s going to give us some breakthrough ideas and steps that you can use today to get better at public speaking. So you can now that next sales pitch, so you can impress your team. So you can go on a podcast like my one, and deliver the kind of spoken message that really impacts your audience, and really get some lapping up what you’ve got to say. Now, before I talk to Brendan, there’s a quick message about a business report that I’ve got for business owners and leaders, just like you listen to this message. And I’ll be back shortly with Brendon to tell you all about public speaking, and what you can do to be a great orator. I’ll see you soon.

Voiceover by Josh 1:53
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Andrew Bull 2:17
So today, I’m joined by Brendan from Master talk. He’s an expert in public speaking. Welcome to the show, Brendan. Course Andrews. Thanks, Robin. Okay, cool. So what is public speaking?

Brenden Kumarasamy 2:33
I mean, that’s a good way of starting the conversation. So public speaking, in my opinion, is a lot more than just presentations. It’s every interaction you have with every human being that you speak to. It’s the tough conversations you have with your family. It’s the great conversation you have with your friends over dinner. It’s everything that you are and everything that you do. So we start to understand that, then we’ll start to expand her horizons of what we can do in communication, and how we share ideas with the world. Right. So that’s the way I think about it. Andrew is public speaking is more than just about presentations. It’s about mastering our interactions, once we realize that the quality of of our presentations, but more importantly, our life will get better. Interesting.

Andrew Bull 3:21
So yeah, we shouldn’t just be talking about TED talks and huge keynotes, we should be talking about what what might be thought was smaller moments when we do public speaking as well.

Brenden Kumarasamy 3:32
Absolutely, completely agree. And that’s how we incentivize supposed to be like most people out there probably don’t want to speak at a stage of 1000 people. And that’s definitely not the message that I want to pull across. It’s more about how can we implement communication in a way that we’re comfortable with, so that we can make our ideas heard? and share ideas that matter?

Andrew Bull 3:51
Yeah, okay. Yeah. Because that’s, that’s the key is and are getting out, getting our ideas across, right, because we can have the best idea in the world. But if we can’t communicate it, and package it up in a way that people can easily understand, then it’s kind of not pointless. But it’s a much harder journey for for what we’re doing.

Brenden Kumarasamy 4:11
Absolutely, man. Like, I think the key is, as we learn, to communicate ideas simply and more effectively, not only does it help us in the context of formal presentation, but it helps us as well, the context of every interaction, because if you’re someone who has a great idea, the way that you use communication is also to enroll other people into your vision, whether it’s employees, investors, you know, your significant other, your family, your friends, we use communication as a vehicle to get the things that we want. So the better we get at it, the easier a goals will be to accomplish.

Andrew Bull 4:49
Yeah, so it’s a platform for expressing what we do public speaking is another channel and I suppose it is, maybe it’s the first one as well because here’s a thought for you, right?

A way that I start writing a book or a blog post or anything nowadays often is by like getting my phone, opening up otter, and talking to myself kind of about the idea or the problem, or the challenge, or what I feel like my audience is struggling with, and I get it down to talking. And then from there, I then might go and edit it and turn into a blog post and so on, but originally comes from expressing it. And actually, I suppose if we can get good expressing ourselves through the spoken word, it can speed things up as well. It can be a shortcut, right to better communication and everything we do.

Brenden Kumarasamy 5:45
Absolutely, you can think of it like a rocket ship, right? You know, at the beginning, it takes a while to get the fuel going, it takes a while to get all the pieces in place. But then when the rocket ship takes off, it takes up really quickly. So communication works in the same way. Most people don’t want to launch. Right? They’re still they’re still there on Earth, they’re still thinking through, oh, how do I communicate this, I don’t really want to do this. I’m scared. But once I take that first step,

then as the rocket ship starts to gain more momentum and starts to go into outer space, then we go, Wow, we could do anything. sky’s the limit. Not anymore. Right? Anything’s slimming down. So that’s the way I want people to think about this is communication is not as hard as people think it is. You just need to get through that first barrier of fear and insecurity. And, oh, should I share this out with people once they’re starting to share? In the same way, your episode one on the podcast is very different than the episode today, that after your habits change in the way that you communicate changes to?

Andrew Bull 6:44
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. It’s just, it’s just having the courage to take that first step and understanding that first, you’re, you’re unlikely to smash that first step out of the park, it’s not going to be your best ever effort that you ever produce. But that doesn’t matter. Like, it’s just taking that first step and doing it, which is really important and the key. And then it’s like kind of what I was, today, I was teaching my son how to like use a tennis racket and hit a ball in the garden. And I was like, it doesn’t matter if you miss, just keep swinging, because that’s how you will eventually hit the ball. And he did like he didn’t hit it into the next door neighbor’s garden. So it’s the it’s, but you’ve got to take that first swing, and then get over it when you miss that those first few times.

Brenden Kumarasamy 7:29
Absolutely. I completely agree, man, it’s this idea of how do you keep swinging in a way that you’re encouraged that you’re motivated and that you understand what it means to get a home run. And if you understand what that homerun means in your life, and in your life, it might not be being a professional speaker, it might just be, you know, having less arguments as my family, it might be understanding my friends a bit better. And being a bit more vulnerable as I might be. You don’t know how to talk to the delivery man in a way that’s a bit more respectful. And in a way that shows kindness. When we start to do that. I think life becomes a lot more interesting in the way we communicate as well.

Andrew Bull 8:07
Yeah, got it. Yeah, that made that makes sense. And I like I like that idea of looking about and thinking about how we talk in generals as a performance factor. Not just like these keynote moments, I think that there’s something really amazing and interesting in that idea of thinking about how those everyday conversations can be done a much better level. I think one of the things that people often have with talking is hearing like a problem they have like a mental barrier is hearing themselves talk right. And I think he takes now I don’t mind actually hearing myself talk as well talk. In fact, sometimes I listen back to the podcast or some other things I’ve done, maybe I’m interviewed somewhere else, and actually kind of enjoy listening to myself, which sounds a bit weird. And like, especially if you’re British, like it sounds read it very and British to be like enjoying yourself talk like what’s wrong with this guy. He’s actually got confidence and doesn’t mind the sound of his own voice. But I think that’s a big, that’s a big factor. For a lot of people they have like this insecurity, or lack of courage or lack of acceptance of who they are. And that comes across in them not liking the sound of their voice. I kind of think them not liking the sound of their own voice is kind of just a symptom of that deeper issue.

Brenden Kumarasamy 9:25
I’m with you. You know, I think the key is once you understand how you speak once you’re just a while you want to speak, so easier to fix your own voice. And also getting feedback from other people helps. I didn’t like the sound of my own voice when I started. I was terrible. I used to be very aggressive. My friends gave me the feedback idea. They’re like, hey, Brenda, you got to tone it down. And it’s through those conversations that I was able to modify my voice in a way that people want to hear it. Reza takes practice, right answer you just got to be willing to push through it. You got to be willing to get the feedback especially if it hurts because it will

Andrew Bull 10:00
At the beginning, and then over time, you’ll be able to speak in a way that people go, Wow, that’s incredible. Yeah, I love the fact that you went out and you got feedback from people, and prepared to listen to that feedback and move forward. I think that’s a big thing, being open to getting constructive feedback from people. I think often we’re so defensive about ourselves and our capabilities, because they’re so we’re so scared about even losing what we already have, like our confidence is a precious thing. Heard Juergen Klopp, Football Manager talk about

confidence being like a precious flower today, today, and how you, it’s very easy to tread on that flower and lose it. And maybe that’s for people that they become very fearful of losing little confidence they have. So they won’t seek out

their friends opinion for fear of being shot or not. But we we have to be out to open to this stuff to actually get that like really good feedback, like you said, going from like, maybe a too forceful speaker to one who, who is more gentle. Another interesting idea, right? is leaving gaps for other people to talk.

Brenden Kumarasamy 11:13
Right? Look at you left me a gap there. Yeah. And I agree, once again, I think this this idea of how do we use, the way that we communicate, not just to provide space for our own ideas, but to make space for everyone else? Because I think what great communicators do is they have an ability to get all voices heard to get everyone to talk to get everyone to say what they think and to express it in a way that’s authentic to them. And I absolutely agree with that. Right? I think I think the more that we pause, the more that we pay attention to what the speaker is saying. Because if I just kept rambling, rambling ramble, they’ll tell you just like, well, I don’t wanna listen to any of this. But if I spend my time, emphasizing a specific part of a presentation that really matters, that you need to pay attention to, I say a lot less, but you want to listen a lot more. And that’s something you’ll get overtime as well.

Andrew Bull 12:08
That’s really interesting that paid that that pacing, and that use of like digit, like being like an actor, like having space and dramatic pauses to emphasize stuff. That is that is really interesting. Actually, I saw that in one of your videos on your YouTube channel. Where’s your YouTube channel? Where can people find that? By the way, Brendan?

Brenden Kumarasamy 12:28
Yeah, absolutely. So let’s MasterTalk in one word, all you got to do is go on YouTube, type master talk in one word, you’ll find it right there.

Andrew Bull 12:35
Yeah, check out Brendan’s videos, they are amazing. Honestly, if you’re interested in public speaking and moving forward with public speaking, then like Brendan’s got a ton of great video content for you to go and check out. But yeah, going back to leaving the gaps, I find, I find

a lot of people actually I talked to a quite good speakers now. But then they’re not very good at leaving the gaps. And, and you do get into this situation where you have a never ending monologue from people sometimes. And it’s like, oh, I’ve really feel like for my listeners now who are going to be like listening to the show, or maybe I’m listening to someone else’s podcast, and this is happening. I really feel for their listeners. And the fact that it starts, you know, people gonna start to switch off when there’s not that not that variety, because it’s like an orchestra, like, you’re the violin, I’m playing double bass, we’re making some music together.

Brenden Kumarasamy 13:36
I’m with you. You know, I think a lot of people struggle with this. And what exercise I have that people can do address, it’s super simple, is what I call the endless gaze. So let’s break this down. The issue with spaces is most people aren’t comfortable with pausing in general, especially extroverts, because it’s never an event together. We’re talking and there’s a pause, kind of start to freak out a bit. You got a look, let me ask you something else, Andrew, we’re really hard at holding that space. So we want to do instead, is want to get better at practicing pausing for uncomfortably long periods of time. So the endless gaze is essentially the following. You go to somebody that you love or somebody that you like in your house, and you stare at them for five minutes, and you say nothing.

So you can blink if you like is not blinking contest. But most people add your cat make it to five minutes. Most of the high level executives, I worked with Vice President senior VPS who, you know, who been with their wives or husbands for a long time, they kept making the five minutes or just What do you mean?

It’s kind of crazy. So So yeah, I highly recommend people practices because there’ll be a lot more comfortable pausing for three or five seconds in the real world. that’s a that’s a great challenge. Thanks for sharing that Brendan. That’s a that’s an awesome idea. And yeah, I’m going to try I could do my son doing

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Andrew Bull 15:06
How did you start out? Brendan? Were you someone who was a natural speaker? Or were you shy and introverted?

Brenden Kumarasamy 15:14
Yeah, absolutely, man. So for me, I, I’m not gonna lie, I was a pretty extroverted guy. Like, I’m not the anxiety ridden kid with social or anything like that. But I did struggle with communication. And the reason is, because when I was in university, when I was a kid, I actually had to study at a French education system, because I’m based in Montreal, and you need to know the language. So my parents made the right decision to force me to learn French, which, of course, ended up being great for me. But the process wasn’t so fun. Because I had to present to the language I didn’t know. So I grew up, you know, it’d been a first or second grade classroom, I’d look at the crowd and go, a BA jeweler. And that was my life for most of it. But what happened, Andrew is when I got to university, that’s when I really found a love for communication, because I started doing it competitively, while other guys my age, were playing footy, or rugby, or cricket, I was using that same energy and apply it to presentations. So I think the message for people is if I could go for presenting in my second language, to doing to speaking all the stages I do now i’m sure anyone who’s listening can to

Andrew Bull 16:19
Yeah, also I think that’s very inspiring advice. Just Yeah, showing how big a challenge you had with public speaking and how you could how you could face it, I think, I think when you first do your first public speaking event, like maybe you go and talk in front of 10, 20 people is quite nerve wracking. And that’s

understandable in a way, and that’s part of the journey. Maybe it would be kind of a it’s like,

you know, victory is sweeter after difficulties, which I think is Alex Ferguson’s motto, the football manager. And I think that that’s part of the journey, like, in a way i’m not saying people should, like have an awful time in their first event. But that’s those going through those moments like that adrenalin and that fear and then overcoming it is part of the pleasure of overcoming the challenge. I don’t know. Am I talking craziness here?

Brenden Kumarasamy 17:15
No, you’re not. I definitely think you’re on to something. It’s it. Some people thrive off of pressure. In many ways Israel out of Sanya is a UFC fighter, which is very random, but he says it very well. He says pressure is like caviar. It’s an acquired taste. Not everyone has it. Some people like it. Some people really don’t, in the same way that some people really like caviar. And most people really don’t, says the same thing. But I think we need to learn how to like that pressure, we need to fall in love with that pressure, because it’s that pressure that reminds us that if we can push through it, our message can be heard to a lot of people and make a big difference in the world. Yeah. Okay. And, and in, you know, the reward, the rewards can be huge bite for, I suppose, if you’re comparing on a business sense to businesses, which are equally same, the same, but one of them has one or two people who can go out and present the ideas of the business in a very engaging human way. That’s a very big competitive edge over their rivals who can’t do that. Right. I completely agree. You’re absolutely right

Andrew Bull 18:25
Yeah. Because, you know, authority lead businesses are a big thing right now. And also,

I think it gives you an edge, it gives you an edge which Money can’t buy, right? Because it’s very hard for people to like, say I’m an IT company, I can’t compete directly with Microsoft, right?

You know, they were all the money in the world, how we how your IT business could compete, is by being superhuman, super personable, and finding a great way to communicate on a very light on a way that Microsoft probably wouldn’t have the courage to do it. Right. So that could be like, it could be a real, real big edge for your business be like for a smaller guy, right?

Brenden Kumarasamy 19:12
I’m with you. Absolutely. It’s, it’s this idea of if you think about communication in that lens, if you work on your communication skills, they’ll help you explain the difference that you are. So you might be a small shop and the tech example you gave, but it’s a personal touch that you just can’t get into Microsoft Word or Google or the bigger tech company. And it’s easier for you to sell that personal touch that customizability because of the way you communicate, but if you don’t know how to communicate, you know, the people who are looking to buy your services will see you on the same level as Microsoft, which means you won’t get the contract. Right. So it’s always about thinking through that.

Andrew Bull 19:51
Yeah, yeah, I think Yeah, and yeah, and trying to make the most of that advantage. And I suppose Yeah, you’ll be hiding. You might have a great personality. You might have great ideas, but if you can’t

Get them out there and transmit them beyond you just your LinkedIn portrait photo where you’re looking really stern on camera. If you can’t get past that, and let the your humaneness flow out, and really hit people in the way that a big corporate can’t use your loot, you’re really losing out. I, I think, maybe when when did you start speaking like so you started from, from from? In your education, right? or public speaking? I know, we talked I know we’re talking about public speaking as being

all of these moments, right. So it could be over the dinner table and so on. But But your first, you know, actual getting up on stage that was in college, and in your academic days, right?

Brenden Kumarasamy 20:44
That’s correct. So essentially, what I did is I did presentations competitively, Andrew, so So essentially, what happened is, we would go out to different business schools across the world. And we will present to senior level executives on how to think about a business problem that they’re facing. And that’s where I learned how to talk. It wasn’t really in school, it was a school program in that University, where there was maybe a couple of dozens of people in it. And that’s where I learned how to how to be an incredible speaker that was able to leverage those skills to to end up coaching people and being on podcasts like this one.

Andrew Bull 21:19
And has that open door and having the skill of public speaking, is that opened lots of doors for you then in your career?

Brenden Kumarasamy 21:26
Oh, yeah. So very, but I think for me, the biggest thing besides just business and numbers, and all that stuff, is the friendships that I’ll be able to make. You know, it’s funny, if I never started master talk, this conversation wouldn’t even exist. You know, it wouldn’t even be there, I wouldn’t have reached out to you, I wouldn’t have like done a podcast, I would just listen to them like I always do. So it’s fascinating when you work on interesting things, or interesting problems, interesting things. And events start to happen as at the same time, right? So that’s what I encourage people to think about is, how do we have the courage to share ideas with the world? And how would that world change? If we all became exceptional communicators? I think that’s the beauty of this art. And if people really focused in on it, Hmm, yeah, communicate, Kim. And it’s,

Andrew Bull 22:16
I think, you know, the ability to communicate and talk to each other is a very undervalued thing. And probably something that like in school, we obviously learn about grammar, where to put a comma where to put a full stop. But the art of conversation is something that probably should be taught to high school students, at least, because it could probably solve a lot of problems. Are you familiar with adlerian? Psychology at all? No. Okay, in adlerian, psychology, they say that the biggest all problems come down to interpersonal problems, right. So every challenge you have in your life, actually, if you pull back the layers, they’re all interpersonal, Pro, you know, the majority of interpersonal problems. So it does make you think if people actually were better skilled, to communicate with each other, how many, how many less problems we’d have, or how better we’d like overcome them.

Brenden Kumarasamy 23:17
I love it. It’s great food for thought

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Andrew Bull 23:38
I think there’s a lot of myths around public speaking that

probably hold people back that they probably peep probably a big one is you need a big slide deck. Right? They’re like they see Apple whoever doing like these, their annual keynote conference and you’re like, well, if I’m going to do an amazing,

you know, presentation that really punches and hits home owners, I need amazing animated slides. What do you need great slides to give a great public talk?

Brenden Kumarasamy 24:11
That’s a great question. I think for me, it really depends on the speaker, I don’t think that you would need them. But I think they’re they’re great training wheels to have at the beginning. So let’s say you’re a speaker, and you don’t really know how to structure your thoughts or your talk, which is normal, by the way. Making slides is great at the beginning, right? Because you’re making slides to know Okay, this is where I’m at in the presentation. But after you’ve done that talk 50 times or in Steve Jobs case, 5000 times, you don’t really use the slides anymore. You don’t you either don’t use them a lot at all, or you just use them for image purposes. It’s literally just images on a slide, which is what he does. So what I would encourage people to do is Yeah, absolutely make slides at the beginning. But over time, realize that the goal is how do you present the same talk without any slides.

Andrew Bull 25:00
That’s a good, that’s a good goal to get to. And Alright, so talking about goals, what will be I’m, I’m quite into giant leaps for people, right? So I think things that really stretch our personal development is taking, like a big leap forward in what we do. So, you know, I can obviously go and try and have a better conversation over dinner tonight. And that will help me move forward a little bit, my public speaking. But if I go and do a live, probably at the moment, not on stage anywhere, but live zoom webinar to group of 50 people, obviously, that would be a big stretch goal, which would push someone’s past, you know, who’s new to public speaking really pushed them forward? Are there any other kind of big leaps that people could take that you suggest, you know, if you’re interested in public speaking, it’s a bit like going to the doctor to a pool, right? You can, you can just jump off the side of the swimming pool, right, which is fine. And I’m not saying people shouldn’t do that. Or you can be brave. And you can climb all the way to the top of the diving board. But you know, the one that’s right at the top,

you can come all the way up and jump in. I’m not suggesting anyone dive in. You’re not but you could just go and jive. And like, if you did that, it would be like, you know, it would be scary. But having done it, it would give you a lot more courage

moving forward, and there’s some giant leaps that people can take that or just, you know, really help them get started with public speaking?

Brenden Kumarasamy 26:37
Absolutely, I think for me, there’s, there’s a couple of easy things. But I think the easiest one, if you really want to dive in deep, really fast and get results quick, is what I call the random word exercise. spend five minutes every day, picking five random words in your house five random objects, and making presentations out of thin air. If you did that for a year, pretty much guarantee your communication skills were TEDx.

Andrew Bull 27:00
Wow, that is fantastic advice. I think if you’re listening to this podcast right now, you’ve just got an absolute gem of an idea from Brendan, thank you for sharing that. That is that is wonderful. That is I think, sometimes we get these amazing insights and ideas from people. And it’s like, someone will be like, Oh, yeah, great idea. But that is such an amazing idea. Thank you. That’s it.

Brenden Kumarasamy 27:23
And if you want to make it more interesting Andrew, feel free to give me a word. I’m happy to demonstrate it.

Andrew Bull 27:26
Okay. All right, let’s, let’s think of quantum

Brenden Kumarasamy 27:31
quantum. Sure. So I have to make a random presentation. Here I go.

When we think about leaps, Andrew, some people want to make small leaps, like pebbles that you throw in a river that go bump Bump. Some people want to make bigger leaps, like throwing a boulder in a river or an ocean, or taking that big step, like losing a lot of pounds, finding their significant other starting a family starting a great job and living their best life. But a very small percentage of people want to take the quantum leap, a leap that is so big, that if they succeed,

they will change the vibration of humanity change the way that we live in who we are. So I asked you all today

to think about not just the big leap, but the quantum one too many people spend their lives taking small little incremental leaps. But the Wii deals or dare those who tried to think different those who go for that quantum leap might achieve quantum level results. So go try and find out.

There you go just random.

Andrew Bull 28:56
That’s brilliant. That’s great.

Wow. No, I think that’s, well, I’ve got a new new everyday habit. I’m going to be driving my family that’s now been making my son laugh a lot. But yeah, I’m going to be doing that. Yeah, that’s awesome. Is there any other things that stop people getting started with public speaking and there any other myths that we can overcome or like roadblocks that we can that we can help our audience overcome?

Brenden Kumarasamy 29:20
Yeah, I would say the other big one is definitely the fear around the topic. People are scared of public speaking, they’re scared of getting the word out, their voices heard. And what I always say in response, as Hey, like, we need to understand that as long as our message is more important than the fear will be successful, we can eliminate fear. And I’m scared of heights, right? This is a good example. I love communication. I can go out and speak to 100 people or 1000, whatever. But it goes to heights Forget it, like I’m gonna piss my pants or we’re all scared of something. But I think the way we overcome it is by realizing that the message we have to share with the world is more important than the fear. Right? So In the context of public speaking, yeah, I’m scared. Sometimes when I give keynotes I’m scared sometimes when I delivered audiences, but what I have to say, with the message, the impact is so important that it outweighs the fear. So you care so much that the fear gets crushed on its head. And that’s when we start thinking about it. Not as absolutes, but rather as relatives, right? How can we focus our energy or time or resources on figuring out what is our message for the world, and outweighing that message to the fear?

Andrew Bull 30:35
That’s fantastic. I love that. I love that. And I think you’re I think you’re right and thinking, focus on the value that you need to connect people with, and how you need to help people. Like, let’s say, You’re specialists in cybersecurity, who’s nervous about public speaking, well, you’ve got an important thing to communicate to the world and keep people safe. So people can’t hack into their computers. And you can do that by writing very well, the problems and the things that people could do to keep themselves safe from hackers and so on. So yeah, I think that that’s a great idea and makes a lot of sense. Where can people connect with you? They want to learn more about you, Brandon, and you know, get start, maybe get started. Or if you got an entry level product people could could find out about

Brenden Kumarasamy 31:25
absolutely, the YouTube channel, I’d highly encouraged people. It’s an entry product everyone can buy, because it’s free. So all you got to do is go to YouTube type master talk in one word. And if you have any feedback for me on how you’re thinking about the videos, I would absolutely welcome that you can send me a message on Instagram and all the info is on the YouTube channel.

Andrew Bull 31:44
Okay, brilliant. And talking. And just just one more topic I’d like to talk about before we bring this interview to close is has there been impacts over the last 12 months with public speaking in terms of how important is or how it’s done? Because everyone is working remotely right now? Is that? Are you noticing any changes?

Brenden Kumarasamy 32:09
Oh, absolutely bad. I think the biggest one is, it’s a lot harder to give online presentations. Because you can’t gauge your audience’s reaction anymore. So let’s say I was in in a room, like in a company with you or a conference room with you in the UK. And I was giving your team a workshop, let’s say your family or something. If I say a joke, two things will happen. Either one, you’ll either laugh and go, Oh, Bret is such a funny guy. or two, which is much more likely, you’ll go well this guy’s not funny. Why is he telling jokes? What’s wrong with them? But either way I can tell? If you’re all like this. You’re not? You’re not laughing? Well, they say no. It’s like, Okay, let me say less. But in an online world, where you don’t see anybody in the camera, all the zoom, all the zoom, cameras are off and no one’s there. You have to say the joke and assume it’s funny.

That’s very different. That’s where the nuances, so how do we fix this a couple of things you could do to help your cause, one, always keep your eyes on the lens.

I know it’s very counterintuitive. But that’s how you look at your audience’s directly even if the natural thing to do is to look at them on the screen. That’s the first thing and one thing you can do to make sure you do that is put a picture of somebody that you love. Next to the next the lens, that’s the easiest way or like a favorite food or something that’s good. So that way, you’re always looking at the lens. That’s one to get on a phone call with somebody that you know is going to be the audience, get to know them understand who they are, it’s probably one of your friends. And then speak to them when you get to the online presentation. And then number three is do virtual prep rooms, get people to jump on your zoom call and critique everything about you before the real thing. So things like oh, Brennan, you talk too fast, Brendan.You don’t dress well, Brenda, your lighting is off. And then when you get to the real thing, you’re much more prepared to ask great advice.

Andrew Bull 34:01
Thanks, Brendon. Really appreciate that. And thanks for coming on today. I’ve really enjoyed our conversation. And your expertise is is amazing. And I feel like the value you’re bringing to the world is gonna get to help. So many people including me. So yeah, thanks for thanks for being with us today.

Brenden Kumarasamy 34:22
Thanks for being here. Andrew. great pleasure was mine.

Andrew Bull 34:24
so grateful to have Brendan on the show today. his advice about how you can find a word or find something in your house and practice your speech and talking and public speaking skills with it, I think was a brilliant, very quick skill to practice and that will help you move forward and it’s certainly something I’ve been doing. Since I’ve spoken with Brendan, you should see me talking about my cutlery basket from my dishwasher, and espousing its virtues and why everyone should want a cutlery basket and these are the kinds of crazy

Things that I’ve been doing, but that have a clear impact on your ability to public speak. Or should I say your ability to verbalize your ideas and get across your message in a really strong way. So just did that that advice he had about just finding something around your house and talking about it, to practice speaking, I think was brilliant. So thanks Brendon for like a brilliant being a brilliant guest of what you put in, you’re amazing. And if you want to get better at public speaking, then I think you should definitely go and check out and reach out to Brendan from Master talk, because I know that he would love to hear from you.

It’s worth thinking about whether you want to be the person in your organization who does the talking. Not everyone has to be a great public talker, like not everyone has to get on stage and do a TED talk. Or net, not everyone has to go on podcasts. This isn’t for everyone. But it’s good to get clear on what kinds of things you are comfortable about doing. However, some kind of public speaking in life is unavoidable. Whether that’s just talking to your friends and family over a dinner table or to your team. At some point, you want to be able to compose and parcel up your message in a way that’s really listened to and that people really engage with. So I think public speaking is a is a must skill for people. But yeah, sure, do it to the level that you’re comfortable with. If you don’t have to go on stage and give a massive talk to loads of people, public speaking, could just be you and a couple of people or could just be you meeting a client over zoom or however you want to do it.

Without further ado, then I’m going to bring this episode to a close. I look forward to having you here. My next episode. If you haven’t already done so, then please hit the subscribe button. wherever you are. Now, you can do that on Spotify, YouTube, wherever. And all I’ve got to say now to you is please listen for the message. It’s coming up, which is about a free business report that I have created just for business leaders and owners, just like you.

Voiceover by Josh 37:16
Thanks for listening to the interstellar business show. This podcast was sponsored by the interstellar report, ready to discover the powerful forces that influence the success of leaders like you, edge to Interstellar adoption report. And we grant this brilliant results. A personalized report, which reveals your strengths and weaknesses in six key areas. Visit Interstellar dots report and discover the insights, roadblocks and opportunities you’ve been missing. Plus, get free personalized training that will help you grow, work and live smarter. Go to Interstellar dot report today and start your adventure.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Andrew Bull 0:00
Welcome to another episode of the interstellar business Show. I’m your host, Andrew Bull. Today’s episode is all about business communication. Well, actually, that’s a bit vague. It’s about something more specific than that. It’s about public speaking in business. Let me ask you, would you like to be able to give a knockout sales presentation, would you like to be able to inspire your team through your choice of words, and you control of your voice and your message, perhaps you’d like to be able to impress on the next date you have, or be able to more clearly communicate to your friends and family. Whatever you want to do with your voice and how you talk and how you communicate through the words that you say, public speaking, is the key, in today’s episode, are going to be joined by Brendan, who’s an expert, nae a leader in public speaking. And he’s going to give us some breakthrough ideas and steps that you can use today to get better at public speaking. So you can now that next sales pitch, so you can impress your team. So you can go on a podcast like my one, and deliver the kind of spoken message that really impacts your audience, and really get some lapping up what you’ve got to say. Now, before I talk to Brendan, there’s a quick message about a business report that I’ve got for business owners and leaders, just like you listen to this message. And I’ll be back shortly with Brendon to tell you all about public speaking, and what you can do to be a great orator. I’ll see you soon.

Voiceover by Josh 1:53
Are you a free thinking business leader, we have a report you must see. It’s a personalized report that reveals your strengths and weaknesses. Head to Interstellar dot report and get your free report today. test yourself at Interstellar dose report.

Andrew Bull 2:17
So today, I’m joined by Brendan from Master talk. He’s an expert in public speaking. Welcome to the show, Brendan. Course Andrews. Thanks, Robin. Okay, cool. So what is public speaking?

Brenden Kumarasamy 2:33
I mean, that’s a good way of starting the conversation. So public speaking, in my opinion, is a lot more than just presentations. It’s every interaction you have with every human being that you speak to. It’s the tough conversations you have with your family. It’s the great conversation you have with your friends over dinner. It’s everything that you are and everything that you do. So we start to understand that, then we’ll start to expand her horizons of what we can do in communication, and how we share ideas with the world. Right. So that’s the way I think about it. Andrew is public speaking is more than just about presentations. It’s about mastering our interactions, once we realize that the quality of of our presentations, but more importantly, our life will get better. Interesting.

Andrew Bull 3:21
So yeah, we shouldn’t just be talking about TED talks and huge keynotes, we should be talking about what what might be thought was smaller moments when we do public speaking as well.

Brenden Kumarasamy 3:32
Absolutely, completely agree. And that’s how we incentivize supposed to be like most people out there probably don’t want to speak at a stage of 1000 people. And that’s definitely not the message that I want to pull across. It’s more about how can we implement communication in a way that we’re comfortable with, so that we can make our ideas heard? and share ideas that matter?

Andrew Bull 3:51
Yeah, okay. Yeah. Because that’s, that’s the key is and are getting out, getting our ideas across, right, because we can have the best idea in the world. But if we can’t communicate it, and package it up in a way that people can easily understand, then it’s kind of not pointless. But it’s a much harder journey for for what we’re doing.

Brenden Kumarasamy 4:11
Absolutely, man. Like, I think the key is, as we learn, to communicate ideas simply and more effectively, not only does it help us in the context of formal presentation, but it helps us as well, the context of every interaction, because if you’re someone who has a great idea, the way that you use communication is also to enroll other people into your vision, whether it’s employees, investors, you know, your significant other, your family, your friends, we use communication as a vehicle to get the things that we want. So the better we get at it, the easier a goals will be to accomplish.

Andrew Bull 4:49
Yeah, so it’s a platform for expressing what we do public speaking is another channel and I suppose it is, maybe it’s the first one as well because here’s a thought for you, right?

A way that I start writing a book or a blog post or anything nowadays often is by like getting my phone, opening up otter, and talking to myself kind of about the idea or the problem, or the challenge, or what I feel like my audience is struggling with, and I get it down to talking. And then from there, I then might go and edit it and turn into a blog post and so on, but originally comes from expressing it. And actually, I suppose if we can get good expressing ourselves through the spoken word, it can speed things up as well. It can be a shortcut, right to better communication and everything we do.

Brenden Kumarasamy 5:45
Absolutely, you can think of it like a rocket ship, right? You know, at the beginning, it takes a while to get the fuel going, it takes a while to get all the pieces in place. But then when the rocket ship takes off, it takes up really quickly. So communication works in the same way. Most people don’t want to launch. Right? They’re still they’re still there on Earth, they’re still thinking through, oh, how do I communicate this, I don’t really want to do this. I’m scared. But once I take that first step,

then as the rocket ship starts to gain more momentum and starts to go into outer space, then we go, Wow, we could do anything. sky’s the limit. Not anymore. Right? Anything’s slimming down. So that’s the way I want people to think about this is communication is not as hard as people think it is. You just need to get through that first barrier of fear and insecurity. And, oh, should I share this out with people once they’re starting to share? In the same way, your episode one on the podcast is very different than the episode today, that after your habits change in the way that you communicate changes to?

Andrew Bull 6:44
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. It’s just, it’s just having the courage to take that first step and understanding that first, you’re, you’re unlikely to smash that first step out of the park, it’s not going to be your best ever effort that you ever produce. But that doesn’t matter. Like, it’s just taking that first step and doing it, which is really important and the key. And then it’s like kind of what I was, today, I was teaching my son how to like use a tennis racket and hit a ball in the garden. And I was like, it doesn’t matter if you miss, just keep swinging, because that’s how you will eventually hit the ball. And he did like he didn’t hit it into the next door neighbor’s garden. So it’s the it’s, but you’ve got to take that first swing, and then get over it when you miss that those first few times.

Brenden Kumarasamy 7:29
Absolutely. I completely agree, man, it’s this idea of how do you keep swinging in a way that you’re encouraged that you’re motivated and that you understand what it means to get a home run. And if you understand what that homerun means in your life, and in your life, it might not be being a professional speaker, it might just be, you know, having less arguments as my family, it might be understanding my friends a bit better. And being a bit more vulnerable as I might be. You don’t know how to talk to the delivery man in a way that’s a bit more respectful. And in a way that shows kindness. When we start to do that. I think life becomes a lot more interesting in the way we communicate as well.

Andrew Bull 8:07
Yeah, got it. Yeah, that made that makes sense. And I like I like that idea of looking about and thinking about how we talk in generals as a performance factor. Not just like these keynote moments, I think that there’s something really amazing and interesting in that idea of thinking about how those everyday conversations can be done a much better level. I think one of the things that people often have with talking is hearing like a problem they have like a mental barrier is hearing themselves talk right. And I think he takes now I don’t mind actually hearing myself talk as well talk. In fact, sometimes I listen back to the podcast or some other things I’ve done, maybe I’m interviewed somewhere else, and actually kind of enjoy listening to myself, which sounds a bit weird. And like, especially if you’re British, like it sounds read it very and British to be like enjoying yourself talk like what’s wrong with this guy. He’s actually got confidence and doesn’t mind the sound of his own voice. But I think that’s a big, that’s a big factor. For a lot of people they have like this insecurity, or lack of courage or lack of acceptance of who they are. And that comes across in them not liking the sound of their voice. I kind of think them not liking the sound of their own voice is kind of just a symptom of that deeper issue.

Brenden Kumarasamy 9:25
I’m with you. You know, I think the key is once you understand how you speak once you’re just a while you want to speak, so easier to fix your own voice. And also getting feedback from other people helps. I didn’t like the sound of my own voice when I started. I was terrible. I used to be very aggressive. My friends gave me the feedback idea. They’re like, hey, Brenda, you got to tone it down. And it’s through those conversations that I was able to modify my voice in a way that people want to hear it. Reza takes practice, right answer you just got to be willing to push through it. You got to be willing to get the feedback especially if it hurts because it will

Andrew Bull 10:00
At the beginning, and then over time, you’ll be able to speak in a way that people go, Wow, that’s incredible. Yeah, I love the fact that you went out and you got feedback from people, and prepared to listen to that feedback and move forward. I think that’s a big thing, being open to getting constructive feedback from people. I think often we’re so defensive about ourselves and our capabilities, because they’re so we’re so scared about even losing what we already have, like our confidence is a precious thing. Heard Juergen Klopp, Football Manager talk about

confidence being like a precious flower today, today, and how you, it’s very easy to tread on that flower and lose it. And maybe that’s for people that they become very fearful of losing little confidence they have. So they won’t seek out

their friends opinion for fear of being shot or not. But we we have to be out to open to this stuff to actually get that like really good feedback, like you said, going from like, maybe a too forceful speaker to one who, who is more gentle. Another interesting idea, right? is leaving gaps for other people to talk.

Brenden Kumarasamy 11:13
Right? Look at you left me a gap there. Yeah. And I agree, once again, I think this this idea of how do we use, the way that we communicate, not just to provide space for our own ideas, but to make space for everyone else? Because I think what great communicators do is they have an ability to get all voices heard to get everyone to talk to get everyone to say what they think and to express it in a way that’s authentic to them. And I absolutely agree with that. Right? I think I think the more that we pause, the more that we pay attention to what the speaker is saying. Because if I just kept rambling, rambling ramble, they’ll tell you just like, well, I don’t wanna listen to any of this. But if I spend my time, emphasizing a specific part of a presentation that really matters, that you need to pay attention to, I say a lot less, but you want to listen a lot more. And that’s something you’ll get overtime as well.

Andrew Bull 12:08
That’s really interesting that paid that that pacing, and that use of like digit, like being like an actor, like having space and dramatic pauses to emphasize stuff. That is that is really interesting. Actually, I saw that in one of your videos on your YouTube channel. Where’s your YouTube channel? Where can people find that? By the way, Brendan?

Brenden Kumarasamy 12:28
Yeah, absolutely. So let’s MasterTalk in one word, all you got to do is go on YouTube, type master talk in one word, you’ll find it right there.

Andrew Bull 12:35
Yeah, check out Brendan’s videos, they are amazing. Honestly, if you’re interested in public speaking and moving forward with public speaking, then like Brendan’s got a ton of great video content for you to go and check out. But yeah, going back to leaving the gaps, I find, I find

a lot of people actually I talked to a quite good speakers now. But then they’re not very good at leaving the gaps. And, and you do get into this situation where you have a never ending monologue from people sometimes. And it’s like, oh, I’ve really feel like for my listeners now who are going to be like listening to the show, or maybe I’m listening to someone else’s podcast, and this is happening. I really feel for their listeners. And the fact that it starts, you know, people gonna start to switch off when there’s not that not that variety, because it’s like an orchestra, like, you’re the violin, I’m playing double bass, we’re making some music together.

Brenden Kumarasamy 13:36
I’m with you. You know, I think a lot of people struggle with this. And what exercise I have that people can do address, it’s super simple, is what I call the endless gaze. So let’s break this down. The issue with spaces is most people aren’t comfortable with pausing in general, especially extroverts, because it’s never an event together. We’re talking and there’s a pause, kind of start to freak out a bit. You got a look, let me ask you something else, Andrew, we’re really hard at holding that space. So we want to do instead, is want to get better at practicing pausing for uncomfortably long periods of time. So the endless gaze is essentially the following. You go to somebody that you love or somebody that you like in your house, and you stare at them for five minutes, and you say nothing.

So you can blink if you like is not blinking contest. But most people add your cat make it to five minutes. Most of the high level executives, I worked with Vice President senior VPS who, you know, who been with their wives or husbands for a long time, they kept making the five minutes or just What do you mean?

It’s kind of crazy. So So yeah, I highly recommend people practices because there’ll be a lot more comfortable pausing for three or five seconds in the real world. that’s a that’s a great challenge. Thanks for sharing that Brendan. That’s a that’s an awesome idea. And yeah, I’m going to try I could do my son doing

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Andrew Bull 15:06
How did you start out? Brendan? Were you someone who was a natural speaker? Or were you shy and introverted?

Brenden Kumarasamy 15:14
Yeah, absolutely, man. So for me, I, I’m not gonna lie, I was a pretty extroverted guy. Like, I’m not the anxiety ridden kid with social or anything like that. But I did struggle with communication. And the reason is, because when I was in university, when I was a kid, I actually had to study at a French education system, because I’m based in Montreal, and you need to know the language. So my parents made the right decision to force me to learn French, which, of course, ended up being great for me. But the process wasn’t so fun. Because I had to present to the language I didn’t know. So I grew up, you know, it’d been a first or second grade classroom, I’d look at the crowd and go, a BA jeweler. And that was my life for most of it. But what happened, Andrew is when I got to university, that’s when I really found a love for communication, because I started doing it competitively, while other guys my age, were playing footy, or rugby, or cricket, I was using that same energy and apply it to presentations. So I think the message for people is if I could go for presenting in my second language, to doing to speaking all the stages I do now i’m sure anyone who’s listening can to

Andrew Bull 16:19
Yeah, also I think that’s very inspiring advice. Just Yeah, showing how big a challenge you had with public speaking and how you could how you could face it, I think, I think when you first do your first public speaking event, like maybe you go and talk in front of 10, 20 people is quite nerve wracking. And that’s

understandable in a way, and that’s part of the journey. Maybe it would be kind of a it’s like,

you know, victory is sweeter after difficulties, which I think is Alex Ferguson’s motto, the football manager. And I think that that’s part of the journey, like, in a way i’m not saying people should, like have an awful time in their first event. But that’s those going through those moments like that adrenalin and that fear and then overcoming it is part of the pleasure of overcoming the challenge. I don’t know. Am I talking craziness here?

Brenden Kumarasamy 17:15
No, you’re not. I definitely think you’re on to something. It’s it. Some people thrive off of pressure. In many ways Israel out of Sanya is a UFC fighter, which is very random, but he says it very well. He says pressure is like caviar. It’s an acquired taste. Not everyone has it. Some people like it. Some people really don’t, in the same way that some people really like caviar. And most people really don’t, says the same thing. But I think we need to learn how to like that pressure, we need to fall in love with that pressure, because it’s that pressure that reminds us that if we can push through it, our message can be heard to a lot of people and make a big difference in the world. Yeah. Okay. And, and in, you know, the reward, the rewards can be huge bite for, I suppose, if you’re comparing on a business sense to businesses, which are equally same, the same, but one of them has one or two people who can go out and present the ideas of the business in a very engaging human way. That’s a very big competitive edge over their rivals who can’t do that. Right. I completely agree. You’re absolutely right

Andrew Bull 18:25
Yeah. Because, you know, authority lead businesses are a big thing right now. And also,

I think it gives you an edge, it gives you an edge which Money can’t buy, right? Because it’s very hard for people to like, say I’m an IT company, I can’t compete directly with Microsoft, right?

You know, they were all the money in the world, how we how your IT business could compete, is by being superhuman, super personable, and finding a great way to communicate on a very light on a way that Microsoft probably wouldn’t have the courage to do it. Right. So that could be like, it could be a real, real big edge for your business be like for a smaller guy, right?

Brenden Kumarasamy 19:12
I’m with you. Absolutely. It’s, it’s this idea of if you think about communication in that lens, if you work on your communication skills, they’ll help you explain the difference that you are. So you might be a small shop and the tech example you gave, but it’s a personal touch that you just can’t get into Microsoft Word or Google or the bigger tech company. And it’s easier for you to sell that personal touch that customizability because of the way you communicate, but if you don’t know how to communicate, you know, the people who are looking to buy your services will see you on the same level as Microsoft, which means you won’t get the contract. Right. So it’s always about thinking through that.

Andrew Bull 19:51
Yeah, yeah, I think Yeah, and yeah, and trying to make the most of that advantage. And I suppose Yeah, you’ll be hiding. You might have a great personality. You might have great ideas, but if you can’t

Get them out there and transmit them beyond you just your LinkedIn portrait photo where you’re looking really stern on camera. If you can’t get past that, and let the your humaneness flow out, and really hit people in the way that a big corporate can’t use your loot, you’re really losing out. I, I think, maybe when when did you start speaking like so you started from, from from? In your education, right? or public speaking? I know, we talked I know we’re talking about public speaking as being

all of these moments, right. So it could be over the dinner table and so on. But But your first, you know, actual getting up on stage that was in college, and in your academic days, right?

Brenden Kumarasamy 20:44
That’s correct. So essentially, what I did is I did presentations competitively, Andrew, so So essentially, what happened is, we would go out to different business schools across the world. And we will present to senior level executives on how to think about a business problem that they’re facing. And that’s where I learned how to talk. It wasn’t really in school, it was a school program in that University, where there was maybe a couple of dozens of people in it. And that’s where I learned how to how to be an incredible speaker that was able to leverage those skills to to end up coaching people and being on podcasts like this one.

Andrew Bull 21:19
And has that open door and having the skill of public speaking, is that opened lots of doors for you then in your career?

Brenden Kumarasamy 21:26
Oh, yeah. So very, but I think for me, the biggest thing besides just business and numbers, and all that stuff, is the friendships that I’ll be able to make. You know, it’s funny, if I never started master talk, this conversation wouldn’t even exist. You know, it wouldn’t even be there, I wouldn’t have reached out to you, I wouldn’t have like done a podcast, I would just listen to them like I always do. So it’s fascinating when you work on interesting things, or interesting problems, interesting things. And events start to happen as at the same time, right? So that’s what I encourage people to think about is, how do we have the courage to share ideas with the world? And how would that world change? If we all became exceptional communicators? I think that’s the beauty of this art. And if people really focused in on it, Hmm, yeah, communicate, Kim. And it’s,

Andrew Bull 22:16
I think, you know, the ability to communicate and talk to each other is a very undervalued thing. And probably something that like in school, we obviously learn about grammar, where to put a comma where to put a full stop. But the art of conversation is something that probably should be taught to high school students, at least, because it could probably solve a lot of problems. Are you familiar with adlerian? Psychology at all? No. Okay, in adlerian, psychology, they say that the biggest all problems come down to interpersonal problems, right. So every challenge you have in your life, actually, if you pull back the layers, they’re all interpersonal, Pro, you know, the majority of interpersonal problems. So it does make you think if people actually were better skilled, to communicate with each other, how many, how many less problems we’d have, or how better we’d like overcome them.

Brenden Kumarasamy 23:17
I love it. It’s great food for thought

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Andrew Bull 23:38
I think there’s a lot of myths around public speaking that

probably hold people back that they probably peep probably a big one is you need a big slide deck. Right? They’re like they see Apple whoever doing like these, their annual keynote conference and you’re like, well, if I’m going to do an amazing,

you know, presentation that really punches and hits home owners, I need amazing animated slides. What do you need great slides to give a great public talk?

Brenden Kumarasamy 24:11
That’s a great question. I think for me, it really depends on the speaker, I don’t think that you would need them. But I think they’re they’re great training wheels to have at the beginning. So let’s say you’re a speaker, and you don’t really know how to structure your thoughts or your talk, which is normal, by the way. Making slides is great at the beginning, right? Because you’re making slides to know Okay, this is where I’m at in the presentation. But after you’ve done that talk 50 times or in Steve Jobs case, 5000 times, you don’t really use the slides anymore. You don’t you either don’t use them a lot at all, or you just use them for image purposes. It’s literally just images on a slide, which is what he does. So what I would encourage people to do is Yeah, absolutely make slides at the beginning. But over time, realize that the goal is how do you present the same talk without any slides.

Andrew Bull 25:00
That’s a good, that’s a good goal to get to. And Alright, so talking about goals, what will be I’m, I’m quite into giant leaps for people, right? So I think things that really stretch our personal development is taking, like a big leap forward in what we do. So, you know, I can obviously go and try and have a better conversation over dinner tonight. And that will help me move forward a little bit, my public speaking. But if I go and do a live, probably at the moment, not on stage anywhere, but live zoom webinar to group of 50 people, obviously, that would be a big stretch goal, which would push someone’s past, you know, who’s new to public speaking really pushed them forward? Are there any other kind of big leaps that people could take that you suggest, you know, if you’re interested in public speaking, it’s a bit like going to the doctor to a pool, right? You can, you can just jump off the side of the swimming pool, right, which is fine. And I’m not saying people shouldn’t do that. Or you can be brave. And you can climb all the way to the top of the diving board. But you know, the one that’s right at the top,

you can come all the way up and jump in. I’m not suggesting anyone dive in. You’re not but you could just go and jive. And like, if you did that, it would be like, you know, it would be scary. But having done it, it would give you a lot more courage

moving forward, and there’s some giant leaps that people can take that or just, you know, really help them get started with public speaking?

Brenden Kumarasamy 26:37
Absolutely, I think for me, there’s, there’s a couple of easy things. But I think the easiest one, if you really want to dive in deep, really fast and get results quick, is what I call the random word exercise. spend five minutes every day, picking five random words in your house five random objects, and making presentations out of thin air. If you did that for a year, pretty much guarantee your communication skills were TEDx.

Andrew Bull 27:00
Wow, that is fantastic advice. I think if you’re listening to this podcast right now, you’ve just got an absolute gem of an idea from Brendan, thank you for sharing that. That is that is wonderful. That is I think, sometimes we get these amazing insights and ideas from people. And it’s like, someone will be like, Oh, yeah, great idea. But that is such an amazing idea. Thank you. That’s it.

Brenden Kumarasamy 27:23
And if you want to make it more interesting Andrew, feel free to give me a word. I’m happy to demonstrate it.

Andrew Bull 27:26
Okay. All right, let’s, let’s think of quantum

Brenden Kumarasamy 27:31
quantum. Sure. So I have to make a random presentation. Here I go.

When we think about leaps, Andrew, some people want to make small leaps, like pebbles that you throw in a river that go bump Bump. Some people want to make bigger leaps, like throwing a boulder in a river or an ocean, or taking that big step, like losing a lot of pounds, finding their significant other starting a family starting a great job and living their best life. But a very small percentage of people want to take the quantum leap, a leap that is so big, that if they succeed,

they will change the vibration of humanity change the way that we live in who we are. So I asked you all today

to think about not just the big leap, but the quantum one too many people spend their lives taking small little incremental leaps. But the Wii deals or dare those who tried to think different those who go for that quantum leap might achieve quantum level results. So go try and find out.

There you go just random.

Andrew Bull 28:56
That’s brilliant. That’s great.

Wow. No, I think that’s, well, I’ve got a new new everyday habit. I’m going to be driving my family that’s now been making my son laugh a lot. But yeah, I’m going to be doing that. Yeah, that’s awesome. Is there any other things that stop people getting started with public speaking and there any other myths that we can overcome or like roadblocks that we can that we can help our audience overcome?

Brenden Kumarasamy 29:20
Yeah, I would say the other big one is definitely the fear around the topic. People are scared of public speaking, they’re scared of getting the word out, their voices heard. And what I always say in response, as Hey, like, we need to understand that as long as our message is more important than the fear will be successful, we can eliminate fear. And I’m scared of heights, right? This is a good example. I love communication. I can go out and speak to 100 people or 1000, whatever. But it goes to heights Forget it, like I’m gonna piss my pants or we’re all scared of something. But I think the way we overcome it is by realizing that the message we have to share with the world is more important than the fear. Right? So In the context of public speaking, yeah, I’m scared. Sometimes when I give keynotes I’m scared sometimes when I delivered audiences, but what I have to say, with the message, the impact is so important that it outweighs the fear. So you care so much that the fear gets crushed on its head. And that’s when we start thinking about it. Not as absolutes, but rather as relatives, right? How can we focus our energy or time or resources on figuring out what is our message for the world, and outweighing that message to the fear?

Andrew Bull 30:35
That’s fantastic. I love that. I love that. And I think you’re I think you’re right and thinking, focus on the value that you need to connect people with, and how you need to help people. Like, let’s say, You’re specialists in cybersecurity, who’s nervous about public speaking, well, you’ve got an important thing to communicate to the world and keep people safe. So people can’t hack into their computers. And you can do that by writing very well, the problems and the things that people could do to keep themselves safe from hackers and so on. So yeah, I think that that’s a great idea and makes a lot of sense. Where can people connect with you? They want to learn more about you, Brandon, and you know, get start, maybe get started. Or if you got an entry level product people could could find out about

Brenden Kumarasamy 31:25
absolutely, the YouTube channel, I’d highly encouraged people. It’s an entry product everyone can buy, because it’s free. So all you got to do is go to YouTube type master talk in one word. And if you have any feedback for me on how you’re thinking about the videos, I would absolutely welcome that you can send me a message on Instagram and all the info is on the YouTube channel.

Andrew Bull 31:44
Okay, brilliant. And talking. And just just one more topic I’d like to talk about before we bring this interview to close is has there been impacts over the last 12 months with public speaking in terms of how important is or how it’s done? Because everyone is working remotely right now? Is that? Are you noticing any changes?

Brenden Kumarasamy 32:09
Oh, absolutely bad. I think the biggest one is, it’s a lot harder to give online presentations. Because you can’t gauge your audience’s reaction anymore. So let’s say I was in in a room, like in a company with you or a conference room with you in the UK. And I was giving your team a workshop, let’s say your family or something. If I say a joke, two things will happen. Either one, you’ll either laugh and go, Oh, Bret is such a funny guy. or two, which is much more likely, you’ll go well this guy’s not funny. Why is he telling jokes? What’s wrong with them? But either way I can tell? If you’re all like this. You’re not? You’re not laughing? Well, they say no. It’s like, Okay, let me say less. But in an online world, where you don’t see anybody in the camera, all the zoom, all the zoom, cameras are off and no one’s there. You have to say the joke and assume it’s funny.

That’s very different. That’s where the nuances, so how do we fix this a couple of things you could do to help your cause, one, always keep your eyes on the lens.

I know it’s very counterintuitive. But that’s how you look at your audience’s directly even if the natural thing to do is to look at them on the screen. That’s the first thing and one thing you can do to make sure you do that is put a picture of somebody that you love. Next to the next the lens, that’s the easiest way or like a favorite food or something that’s good. So that way, you’re always looking at the lens. That’s one to get on a phone call with somebody that you know is going to be the audience, get to know them understand who they are, it’s probably one of your friends. And then speak to them when you get to the online presentation. And then number three is do virtual prep rooms, get people to jump on your zoom call and critique everything about you before the real thing. So things like oh, Brennan, you talk too fast, Brendan.You don’t dress well, Brenda, your lighting is off. And then when you get to the real thing, you’re much more prepared to ask great advice.

Andrew Bull 34:01
Thanks, Brendon. Really appreciate that. And thanks for coming on today. I’ve really enjoyed our conversation. And your expertise is is amazing. And I feel like the value you’re bringing to the world is gonna get to help. So many people including me. So yeah, thanks for thanks for being with us today.

Brenden Kumarasamy 34:22
Thanks for being here. Andrew. great pleasure was mine.

Andrew Bull 34:24
so grateful to have Brendan on the show today. his advice about how you can find a word or find something in your house and practice your speech and talking and public speaking skills with it, I think was a brilliant, very quick skill to practice and that will help you move forward and it’s certainly something I’ve been doing. Since I’ve spoken with Brendan, you should see me talking about my cutlery basket from my dishwasher, and espousing its virtues and why everyone should want a cutlery basket and these are the kinds of crazy

Things that I’ve been doing, but that have a clear impact on your ability to public speak. Or should I say your ability to verbalize your ideas and get across your message in a really strong way. So just did that that advice he had about just finding something around your house and talking about it, to practice speaking, I think was brilliant. So thanks Brendon for like a brilliant being a brilliant guest of what you put in, you’re amazing. And if you want to get better at public speaking, then I think you should definitely go and check out and reach out to Brendan from Master talk, because I know that he would love to hear from you.

It’s worth thinking about whether you want to be the person in your organization who does the talking. Not everyone has to be a great public talker, like not everyone has to get on stage and do a TED talk. Or net, not everyone has to go on podcasts. This isn’t for everyone. But it’s good to get clear on what kinds of things you are comfortable about doing. However, some kind of public speaking in life is unavoidable. Whether that’s just talking to your friends and family over a dinner table or to your team. At some point, you want to be able to compose and parcel up your message in a way that’s really listened to and that people really engage with. So I think public speaking is a is a must skill for people. But yeah, sure, do it to the level that you’re comfortable with. If you don’t have to go on stage and give a massive talk to loads of people, public speaking, could just be you and a couple of people or could just be you meeting a client over zoom or however you want to do it.

Without further ado, then I’m going to bring this episode to a close. I look forward to having you here. My next episode. If you haven’t already done so, then please hit the subscribe button. wherever you are. Now, you can do that on Spotify, YouTube, wherever. And all I’ve got to say now to you is please listen for the message. It’s coming up, which is about a free business report that I have created just for business leaders and owners, just like you.

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