Interstellar Business Show​

With Andrew Bull

Podcast for Technology CEOs and their teams.

It's time to grow your mind, elevate performance, and own your future 🚀

Interstellar Business Show​

Podcast for Tech CEOs who want to grow their minds, elevate performance, and own their future.

Stick, Twist, or Flop: Tanya Fox on Selling or Sticking with Your Business


Special Guest
Tanya Fox - Business Collaborative Coach

Episode Introduction

For many people, the thought of starting their own business is exciting. But what if your business isn’t doing as well as you hoped? Or what if it’s sucking up all your free time? What should you do next?

In this episode Andrew is joined by Tanya Fox (Business Collaborative Coach), they talk about big decisions that come with owning a company. Should you keep it or sell it? Invest more in your company or not at all? In these uncertain times, there’s no one size fits all answer, but we hope to offer some clarity for those who are unsure where to turn next.

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Episode notes & resources

More About Tanya

Connect with Tanya at

Tanya’s podcast…  Fox Talks Business



Please note, this transcription is autogenerated, so there may be errors.

Andrew Bull 0:00
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the interstellar business show. My name is Andrew Bull, I’ll be your host on this journey of growing, working and living smarter. In today’s episode, I’m joined by Tanya Fox from Fox talks business, we’re going to be talking about what it takes to exit a business. And what are the decisions or things you need to be thinking about when it comes to exiting a business? Now, you might think, I’m not thinking about exiting my business right now, how is this relevant to me? Well, whether you like it or not, at some point, you will be exiting your business. So the insights and information that Tanya is going to share in today’s episode could be really valuable for you, whether that’s in the next year or the next couple of years. So it’s definitely worth a listen. I’ll be talking with Tanya, right after this message. This message that is coming up is about a personalized Business Report that I have created, that you can get for free. I’ll see you on the other side of the message. Are you a free thinking business leader?

Voiceover by Josh 1:04
We have a report, you must see. It’s a personalized report that reveals your strengths and weaknesses. Head to Interstellar dot report and get your free report today. test yourself at Interstellar dots Report.

Andrew Bull 1:22
I’m really pleased to have on the show today. Tanya Fox from Fox talks business. Thank you for joining us today, Tanya, Tanya is going to be talking about sticking, twisting, or folding when it comes to business ownership. Is that a crazy way to introduce your specialist area? No, I love that. Thank you so much for having me on the show. I’m really excited, Andrew. Yeah, it’s great. It’s great to have you here. So that like, one of the things that you specialize is when someone comes to a point in their lifestyle, or their their lifetime of being a business owner. When they go, actually, this isn’t quite working for me anymore how I want it for like how it’s worked, you know, owning a business as it is isn’t working right now. I need to mix things up. And maybe, just maybe, and this is like a crazy fault for a lot of business owners because like, our businesses are our babies, right? We’ve had to work so hard to like, sustain them and grow them and look after them. And like I think if you’re talking about loss aversion, I think letting go of your business is going to be a hard psychological thing for many business owners wherever their business is a success or not. Right? Is that where you get involved?

Tanya Fox 2:42
Yeah, and you know, this, this really came to me because I was struggling for this myself, I had had four businesses running. I’ve been an entrepreneur for over 23 years, and I just kind of kept accumulating different ones, you know, you start one business, and it goes really smoothly. And you kind of I got to the point where I was where I wanted to be the business was running and could run without me. So there was a little bit of an ego hit that I that I had to deal with with that because of course you we all want to feel like I mean, if I wasn’t in my business, I mean, it would crumble to the ground, right? The we just want to have that sort of train of thought. And so I got a little bored and I started more businesses. And then then I started another one and I kind of got into retail and franchise and I kind of was really branching out. But I got to a point where something had to give, I didn’t have enough time to really be all that I needed to be in all of these businesses. And so something needed to give. And I found myself sort of realizing that this was a real problem, because it wasn’t a clear cut decision. So if you’re in a business, and the business is failing, and it’s taking all of your money, and it’s not, it’s not even sustaining itself, it’s easy to go, it’s time to let this go. Like it’s not working, it’s failing, we need to get out, it becomes really clear decision. But when a business is, you know, even just paying for itself, or even worse, making a profit, it’s really hard to say, I don’t want to do this anymore. And I think there’s a lot of people that sort of come up I it’s usually around the five year mark between five and seven years, I find that sort of when people kind of get a little bit of that itch, where they’re like, some things you know, not right. And sometimes it is like, you know, like you had said in the introduction that sometimes it’s just that feeling of do I really want to stick with this business? Am I still passionate about it? Like what’s going on what’s making me feel like Oh, I got to get up I got to go in I have to deal with people like you get stuck in the minutiae of the day. So how can you you know, repattern yourself to be like it was enough. first few years where you’re like, Yeah, let’s go, we’re gonna conquer the world we’re going to take over. And then some people come to that thing where, like we said, a folding where you’re just like, Look, this is just, you know, I thought it would be a millionaire by now and I’m just scraping by. And sometimes it’s just going coming to terms with yourself of this just isn’t right for me. And what I found was, that was hard to say to people, because people in my family, I don’t come from an entrepreneurial family. So most of them were government workers or in the military. So when I went to them and said, Look, I’m thinking of giving up the franchise, it was a bread franchise. And the question was, why would you do that? It’s successful, it’s making you money. Why on earth? Would you give it up? And I said, Well, I’m not happy in it anymore. Like, I never get to see my husband. He’s gone all of the time. Because we, you know, there was driving and everything. And I said, so it just doesn’t make sense with the other businesses. And now is, you know, it’s a good time. You know, there’s lots of people out there looking, it’s sort of like a home, right? Like, you don’t sell your home when the market is crap. But there was a lot of like, Well, you can’t do that. Like, that’s so irresponsible. And so I think people face that a lot where people don’t understand why would you give something up when it’s successful?

Andrew Bull 6:23
Well, that’s, I think, yeah, it’s a big challenge for people to get over why why would give? I guess, it depends on how you value success as well, right? Yeah, valuing money. If money is your metric, maybe you need to hang on to the business. But if money isn’t the only thing you value in life, like having quality time, with your family, and that’s more important than than just money, then maybe there is a good reason to give it up.

Tanya Fox 6:50
And that’s the biggest thing I talk with my clients about, because we get so focused on the money aspect of it. And a lot of them, you know, if they’re in that situation, where they’re sort of mid ground, it’s it’s not doing as good as they thought, but it’s not super bad, then it comes to sitting down and really asking yourself the questions, you know, what am I happy about in this? But moreso? What do I not like about this? What do I not like about my day to day tasks? and actually get them to make a list? And then we go through that? Are these things that you’re willing to change? or willing to accept? Is this something that you can maybe hire somebody else to do? to sort of get it off of your plate? If the answer to most of those are no, or you know, the person is just like, um, I don’t know, if I really want to fix that, or I’m not really sure, then it’s, maybe it’s time to just kind of, you know, let it go. Because you’ll never, I’ve never seen anybody, and there will be exceptions to the rule. But there are very few people that I have seen that are miserable and hate what they do and make a ton of money, those two things just don’t go together. Or if they if you get the odd person who is a miserable person, but is making a lot of money, they’re still unhappy. So to me really finding the joy and being passionate about what you do is so key to being an entrepreneur. And the other thing is that I’m trying to do in my life, one of my main goals is to lose that stigmatism around once you start a business, you have to keep it for life. Because that’s something that’s almost ingrained in people, like you’re not allowed to move on. And you are, it’s no different than a relationship. If that, you know, relationship with you and your business isn’t serving you anymore. It’s okay to move on. It’s okay to let it go. Let someone else love it and nurture it and you know, raise it, let it go. And that’s okay. But a lot of people feel no, like, you know, like you had said, I’ve put five years into this. You know, I’ve put my my blood, my sweat my tears, I’ve spent time away from my family. How can I walk away from this now? And it’s really just letting your ego go. And the other thing that people usually that I usually encounter is, well, what will people do if I close my business? And this is always a really hard one. And it’s, it works well for me because I have the personality that I don’t mind saying stuff as it is kind of personality. But it really comes down to nobody at the end of the day really cares. And that’s a hard thing for a lot of people to come to. And it was a really hard thing for me to realize I had a retail craft store. I was the only craft store in town besides like the big Walmart that was here. It was it was just me. So I was like, What will people do if I disappear? And I had to take an ego hit and realize that there will be people who are upset because of course I had my loyal customers who were sad to see me go but at the end of the day, this is the way the world works. Another business will open another opportunity for somebody, they’ll go to another town, like Phil find a way to manage, Phil, Phil get by. But again, we all want to think that I mean, if I disappear, the world shall mourn. The reality is that it’s okay for you to move on to something else. And what I found is, if you’re, if what you’re doing if, say, you’re shifting, or you’re twisting into a different business, sometimes those customers just come with you. And you still sort of keep that following because you’ve now almost branded yourself, they know what to expect from you. They you know, they know that you’re successful that you’ll take care of them. And so sometimes that’s not a bad thing. Because again, they’re going to sense your passion, they’re going to sense your excitement, and they’re going to want to come along that ride with you.

Andrew Bull 10:52
Interesting, and that speaks about that speaks volumes about the power of building a personal brand, I suppose, which is bigger than the thing that you’re actually selling. Right now the product.

Tanya Fox 11:04
Yeah, and it’s true, I find to a lot of people, especially this days, because a lot of stuff is going online, that people and I’ve done this, I’ve been so guilty of this, that I start businesses, and I create them so big that I can’t leave. And I always have to sit down and remind myself that the goal of my business is to get it so big, that it doesn’t need me anymore, that it can run without me. Because we forget that goal. But what that does, is causes you to be stuck in it, you can’t leave, you can’t take vacations, you end up micromanaging your staff. Because, you know, you just have to have your hands and everything. And so the goal really is in any business is to grow it big, so that you can do stuff like franchise or expand or have other owners come in or even, you know, just grow. So really don’t, you know, it’s it’s almost just reminding yourself that the ultimate goal is that this business could run completely by itself. Because when you’re younger, when I was in my 20s, I didn’t think that now that I’m in my 40s, I go, there is going to come a point where I’m going to want to kind of retire, like you know, not just sit in a rocking chair and knit but that I’m going to want the freedom to be able to travel to be able to do things to go, you know, I’m not going to work, I’m going to work Friday this week. But if you stick yourself so much in the business, and you’re focusing on that, you’re not giving yourself that opportunity later. Now, that being said, if it’s a new business owner who’s listening right now, you’re not going to get that right away, you got to it is just plowing and putting all of your time into, you know, to help it grow. But again, it’s

Andrew Bull 12:52
something really interesting there, which is about a people’s mindset, when they come into starting a business. I think one of those things is that there’s like, it’s almost want to be like a gladiator, and to test ourselves by like some trial of fire, that we can do this, and we can prove everyone wrong in the Coliseum around us. Yeah, that show that we can make it. Which is it like that passion is really good in the beginning of building your business, you know, desire to like just I’m going to show everyone what I can do. And I’m going to make my mark on the world. But I think once you get too consumed by that kind of feeling, then the long term as your life changes, which is what you’ve just said, as you go from being the baby, this person in their 20s or early 30s to being this family person who’s got other values and other interests and maybe not even a family person, but a person who values of other things outside of outside of work, then you suddenly go actually I really want to be able to take a day off, I don’t always want to have to be involved in everything. And this is one of the traps now with with many businesses where you’d like built end up building the business around you and I look at some huge companies online now who are built around personal brands like Neil Patel, for example, big marketing brand, person and the business is built around him but even he says that he wishes he hadn’t built the business around him because he’s like trapping himself. Inside inside the business, what do you think are some steps that people can take to try and start stepping back from that point where they’ve become the center pole, like in the Big Top inside of their business? What can they can do to slowly remove themselves from that situation?

Tanya Fox 14:44
I think the first thing is don’t name it after you seen it. You know, we’ve seen stuff time and time again happen. The one now this is going to age me quite a bit but there’s a lady called Debbie Travis who that’s what she did. She had Debbie Travis pay She did home decor and all that other stuff that people are familiar with her look at her story, because what actually happened to her was that she grew, which is exactly what she wanted. She got really big. But then the the organization that she was working with kind of phased her out, and she lost her own name. Because they were like, No, no, we own the rights to that. And she’s like, No, no, it’s my name. Right? So that’s one way to do it. Because that’s the easy. That’s the easy way to do it. Right? You go, I don’t know what to name this thing. I’m just going to name it Tanya Fox, because that’s, that’s easy. No one has it, I don’t have to worry about it. So really have it as a separate thing, whatever it is that you’re offering, even if you’re the one who’s behind the scenes, even if you’re, you know, you’re like, Yeah, but I’m starting out. It’s just me. I always start my business as if I already have a team built around me. I have like a support email already set up. When I first start my business, even though it’s just me, why wouldn’t I just have it coming to my, you know, my, my own email? Well, you want to set it up, so it’s easy to pass off. So when I get to a point that I can hire an assistant, I just hand them over that email, it’s already created. But I’ve also already trained my customers that that’s their first point of contact. So even just those little things helped you to kind of have that separation piece. And it’s also it’s hard to train people to stop always contacting you. If you set your clients up like that, they’re always going to do that. And I’ve met and again, this comes from experience. When I first started an accounting company. I wanted everybody I wanted to give better service. That was my, that was my sort of niche. That was my thing. So day or night. Well, but then people started calling me day or night, they would talk to me at 10 o’clock to ask me a question. And I foolishly would answer. And what that caused was that that was okay, I set that boundary that it’s okay to expect that stuff. Well, when all of a sudden, I was like, I’m on holiday stop texting me at 11 o’clock on a Friday, and then pissed off that you didn’t get an answer. That was my fault, because I had trained them to do that. And it took a long time to retrain them to say, you’re not going to get an answer for that. So it’s just sitting, you know, setting up those little bit of separations. And always looking Okay, what do I want, you know, five or six years down the road? What would I like to see this company be at? Do I want to have other employees? Do I want to have a team behind me and create that separation? Now, the other thing that that does is allows you to sell? Because if the company is 100%, you, it’s really hard to walk away, because you can’t give your brain away. So are you setting up processes that other people could come in? You know, we don’t want to think about it. But there was a time where I got, I got quite sick, and I couldn’t work. But I had set all of my stuff up and I had kept notes of this is what I do on a day. This is how I answer people. These are some scripts that I use, so that my assistant could come in and essentially take over my role for a month, and do all of the things I needed to do. And it was easy to do that as opposed to letting everything crumble and then having to come back. And you know, I’m so sorry, I was sick, blah, blah, blah, my clients never knew what was going on. So it’s setting up those processes, and trying to keep your name out of it. Yeah, name stuff, after you have names for all of your stuff, whether it’s a service or a product or anything, but especially the services, name it have a catchy name for it, it’s going to help you when you’re advertising it when you’re promoting it. But it’s also going to help it not stick to you as a person. And the other most important thing that that does is it doesn’t you’re not when you when you put your name on something, you claim that item. And so sometimes you’ll intertwine your identity with that item. And that that is hard to get out of later on. The

Andrew Bull 19:11
other thing is visualizing where you want to go is a really powerful thing to do. And something that we often don’t give time to but we don’t invest time in thinking, Oh, actually, what would be the dream state of my business in five years time. And I think that’s a really powerful thing to do. Because then you can start thinking about how many offices you’re going to have, how many team members you’re going to have, how many locations are going to serve, and start thinking about what you need to do that. And yeah, I think that’s really powerful. Advice thinking about

Tanya Fox 19:41
and using those names too. I think like if you want to have an assistant, then like I actually create a name and I have like a sticky note and this is where my assistants gonna sit and this is her name, like pick whatever name you want. But this is who she is going to be and have I because I think that visualization of going oh it’s going to be great. What I’m going to be able to hander that really helps. Like I always just, you know, put like a picture, this is what I’d like my assistant to look like, or this was like what I’d like my next team member to look like. And just always seeing it makes me go, I want this to be a real person, and helps me keep refueling that passion, or maybe it’s a location, you want to really move into go out and scout locations, you know, do walk through the building that are for least take a picture, put it up on your wall, we need to always have that focus of, you know, where, where are we going to what are we striving to be. And when we don’t do that we get stuck in the minutiae we go day to day, and we’re just trying to survive and and you know, and get through this day on to the next day,

Andrew Bull 20:41
I mean, the first step in achieving it is believing it and, and one of the things I like to say, is, is like Santa Claus, right? You have to tell Santa Claus, what you want in order to get it. So you’ve got to have clarity on what you want from the world to have any hope of getting it. So I think it’s really, I love the idea of mapping out your, your your team hierarchy as well, that’s a really powerful thing. So

Voiceover by Josh 21:06
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Andrew Bull 21:12
I’d like to jump back to something you mentioned before, which is about people are afraid of killing their business or maybe selling it or doing something with it. Because they think it’s a loss. They see it as a loss. Right? Yes. But actually, I think not making a decision can be a loss, as well. And I think it’s a complete myth, to think the only risk is doing something different, like the only risk is selling your business will actually the biggest risk might be you staying in your business carrying on working 6070 hours a week, and eventually having a serious health crisis. Because of that, and so I think, you know, we need to look beyond the like the simple fear and like really be able to set step back objectively, is that something you help people do?

Tanya Fox 22:03
Yeah. And like I had said before, it really comes down to sitting down and discovering, what is it that you really want? What did you want out of this business and even go back, if you were a person who did like vision boards, or journaling or whatever, go back to when you first started that business is, you know, pull out your business plan five years, you know, down the road and take a look at it, did I hit the target? And then why didn’t tie. So a lot of stuff can happen. It could be that you were pied when you first did your business plan? Because that’s really what it is. I mean, you’re guessing at it, but it’s really sitting down. And that’s what I do I sit down with you and we really go through and find out why did why were these targets not hit? Or even the other thing? How did you surpass these targets? So it’s really assessing and really getting down to Why is this not working for you anymore? And from that point, then we can figure out is this something that you can change? Is this something that you can find passion in again? And sometimes the answer is simple. No. And that’s okay. So let’s say the answer is no. Let’s say you’re just like, you know what, I stuck. I stayed in this too long, because that’s usually what happens. people stay in it too long. I can’t, you know, it’s like a relationship. i. Now I can’t stand the sound of that person’s breathing. they chew loud, they do this, you know, it’s just, it’s irritating. Everything is irritating. That’s fine. Okay, it’s time to let it go. When you’ve made that decision, now it’s time to let it go. Now you have to decide how do you want to leave? That’s something that people never think about, what do you want your exit to look like? This is a grand exit, just like you had a grand opening, you need to have a grand closing. So how do you want that to look? Is it going to be a transition leaving, like you’re like, Hey, we’re closing down this sector, but we’re doing this really new, exciting thing, come and follow us? Are you doing? Do you want to do sort of something fun? Are you going in a completely different direction. So as an example, when I closed my retail craft store, I wasn’t selling it, I decided that I just I wanted to just close it I needed to be done. I couldn’t I didn’t I made the decision that I didn’t want to wait for sales. As we all know, selling a business means lots of people coming in kicking tires. You know, I didn’t want that. I didn’t want to have to go through that. I just went through it with the franchise. So I thought I don’t owe anything. I’m in a situation where I can just close the store down. I’m going to take all the stock home because I’m a crafter, which worked really well but COVID happened after because I was I was set for all of my stuff. But I sort of thought, How do I want this to go so I decided that I was going to do a retirement party. And my dog always came to work with me and the customers loved her. So I decided I’m not going to do it for me because I’m not retiring. But I’m going to retire the dog. So I threw, that’s what I had. I had, you know, retiring signs in the window, and I put it all over social media. And I said, like, come out, Lily, our security guard is retiring, we’re so excited. And then, you know, and this will be our last day. And for me, that made me be able to leave on a high note, I left on a party, let me tell you, there was so many people that came out for that dog. I don’t think if I would have just said, you know, store closing that I would have gotten as many people. But it was a fun way for me to leave the business. And I’m, I mean, my tagline is, is, is, you know, have fun. Because if you’re not having fun, why are you doing it? So this was a way also for me to say goodbye. So really decide how do you want to say goodbye to this business? Do you want to sell it to someone else? Do you have that emotional attachment where you’re like, I cannot watch someone else own this business? And, you know, run it into the ground? Because that’s what we think we never think someone’s gonna take it and be really good at it? Or are you okay with watching someone else, take your business and be really successful at it. You have to be honest with yourself with that. And so how do you want to exit and make that a plan? Because that’s important. And do you need a mourning period some people do some people need to sit there and have a day where they feel horrible, horrible about it. I had one client who actually had a funeral for her business, she wanted to say goodbye that was very important in her family. So I said, we’ll do it Who says that you can’t do whatever you need to do to say goodbye. Because it’s important for you to have that it’s important for you to say goodbye to that chapter of your life, to thank it for what it’s given you and then to be able to move on. Because if you don’t, you’re always going to be stuck in like you said, that feeling of I failed, you know, I should have been good at this. And then it’s going to take you even longer to pick yourself back up again. And closing a business is not a failure. People close businesses all the time. Even if you go bankrupt and you close it, learn a lesson from it. And then it’s not a failure, you’ve learned something, it’s a success, because you learned from that mistake. And you won’t do that again. Well, isn’t

Andrew Bull 27:17
it worse, also, if you’re a business owner who’s actually worse off than being an employee of another company, as well, I think that’s probably a trap that people get themselves stuck in, where they think, oh, I’ve said, I’m going to go out on my own and make it and things aren’t quite working. And it’s quite painful and sticky. And they could, in fact, just, you know, close everything down and start, you know, become an employee again, and they might be financially better off and have a lot less stress. And they might have a more regular day like nine to five, but their start, you know, psychologically, they feel like they got to continue with the business, which is, which is a shame.

Tanya Fox 27:58
I think that that’s true. And I think that what what happens a lot is is that we put that guilt on ourselves, we feel guilty about the fact that we didn’t make it and what are people going to think? But the truth is, is that the people that truly matter are going to sit there and support you and the other people, they’re not really going to notice. I mean, you might get the few weird people that are like, Oh my god, you know, look at Tonya, like she’s a greeter at Walmart. Meanwhile, I’m like, woohoo, well, like I just I don’t have to do anything. Like sometimes I have that dream. Sometimes I think it’d be really nice to have a nine to five job where I just go in, do my job, like clock in clock out don’t care. Like don’t have to worry if there’s pens or post it notes or nothing like just go in and Hello, hi, welcome.

Andrew Bull 28:43
Everything. Right? Right. So

Tanya Fox 28:47
be okay with your decision and ignore those people who are whispering behind you because everyone else is ignoring them to it, you know, you have to do at the end of the day, what is right for you. And if what is right for you is to go back and you know, and just get a job then do that and be proud of that decision. Because make it a decision not not something that you had no other choice to do. I would rather say I chose to go and get a job then. I had to because yeah, the business was bankrupt. And we owe a lot of money.

Andrew Bull 29:18
Yeah, yeah. I don’t think that’s a big thing, taking ownership and being decisive and saying, This is my life. And I’ll decide what I want to do that’s right for me. Because Because ultimately, if you’re trying to live your life for other people and other people’s expectations, you can’t meet them. Let’s say my brother always thought, Oh, I can never have my own business and make it a success. Well, I could set up my own business, I could open 10 stores in 10 different cities, it could be a business, it’s worth 400 million. He still might think I’m a loser. There’s nothing I can actually do to personally control what someone else thinks or feels about me. So the best thing asked is p individuals can do is actually serve ourselves and live our lives on our own terms for what we actually want, but not worry too much about other people.

Tanya Fox 30:09
The other hard thing that happens is people do the comparison game a lot, you know, we were talking about, you know, when people are trying to find, you know, whether this is something that they want to do and gauging their successes, you know, we have this wonderful thing and social media, but we also have this picturesque thing where we start comparing ourselves to other businesses. And so I tell my clients a lot, do you know what their bank account looks like? And they were like, Well, no, why would I then why are you comparing yourself to them, that’s unfair, unless you can get their complete financial status, and look truly at what their business is doing. stop comparing yourself to them. Because we have all seen it before, where we see, you know, huge stores, huge corporations come in, and all of a sudden, you know, they take over the country, and they open all of these stores, and they open all of these branches. And then six months later, they close. Because they didn’t, you know, they didn’t make it work. So really, we have to stop comparing what we think other people are doing, or how successful we think other people are. Because again, unless you’re seeing behind the curtain, you have no idea what they’re going through. So don’t worry about that.

Andrew Bull 31:21
I’m building on that. I think that’s a great idea of like really knowing if you’re going to compare, like, you’ve got to know what other people’s financial status is, but also beyond that, but how happy are they really in their life? How much time do they have to spend with their kids? How much time do they just have to sit down and read a book? You know, there’s a lot to actually compare beyond the, you know, the falseness or the face of Instagram, let’s say, you might see a business that looks awesome on Instagram, like it was having loads of fun parties in good time, but it’s all just, you know, just a load of baloney, you know, it’s just not true.

Tanya Fox 32:00
Well, it’s five minutes, right? Like, I mean, you have a max five minutes picture into into their world. So maybe they got everything all organized for that picture, you know, and as soon as the picture gets taken, I mean, it’s complete and utter chaos afterwards. So I think it’s really sitting down and being honest about what you want. And I’m not talking about even, it’s great to like, go, I want to have millions of dollars, I only want to work four days a week. That’s a popular one right now, right? I only want to work four days a week. My question is, What are you planning on doing with those other three days? What exactly are you going to do? Are you going to just sit on your couch and do nothing? Or like you really have to decide, because it’s great to think that but if you know, you go I’m only going to work four days, and then you crap away those other three days? Well, what was the point of that? So it’s really getting clear with this is what I want. And then ask yourself, why do I want that? What do I think that is going to gain? What is more money going to do for me? What is more time going to do for me? Am I how am I going to spend that extra time that I’ve gained. And it’s okay to if you’re a workaholic, and you enjoy that, and that works in your life. And with the people that surround you, then stop thinking that you have to, you know, cut down your hours. I tried that I tried going to the four day workweek and I did the plan. And I read the book. And I took the course and all of that other stuff. And I realized I hated it. Because on the other days, all I was doing was thinking about work. And I realized I don’t want to do the four days I really like my Monday to Friday routine. So I went back. So yes, try those things. But if they don’t work, that’s fine. Go back to what works for you. What makes sense to you. And don’t worry about what anybody else is thinking. And that includes closing your business. If it’s right for you, it’s right for you. It doesn’t matter what everybody else thinks they don’t have to live it. You know, and if somebody is like, I can’t believe you’re closing your business, then turn to them and say it’s for sale. Would you like to buy it? Because I guarantee their answers usually gonna be like, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I used to do that to my customers, too. I can’t believe your closing. Why would you do that? Well, you buy it. And you can run it on the paperwork right now. Right? And they’re like, Oh, well, no, no, no. And I’m like, Okay, well, now you understand.

Andrew Bull 34:24
I love that turning of the tables. I think there’s a lot to be said for like reexamining the business model that we all have, in terms of what it’s designed to generate in terms of return on investment for us. Because I think the big myth that’s, you know, big in capitalist society, is that a business generates money, right? That’s the thing that it generates. And I don’t think that’s true at all. The business owners just want to generate money. We want to do something more than have money. Money is of course useful. pays, you know, your mortgage, your rent, food. Your kids, university bills and so on. But I think we want to do stuff with that money, maybe it’s get a yacht sail around the world, maybe it’s been out to like, just do loads of hobbies, or maybe go on holiday five times a year. But I think we all want to do something, you know, do something that’s, that’s different to money. But we start all of our businesses just thinking, Oh, I’ll be great. If I turn over 5 million pounds a year or something like this, we don’t actually think beyond that. We don’t go deeper and look at the true wealth that we actually want to accumulate and own. And I think if we if people step back to actually go, actually, what is it that I actually want from my business? Is it is it that I want to only work 10 hours a week, and not 40 hours? Like my old job, my old boss? Or is it like you say, Oh, no, I want to work five, five days a week and owned like three different businesses? I think we, we need to be a lot more honest with ourselves, because then we’ll be more honest about what we want, then it’s obviously got a bigger chance of getting to what we want, right? That’s the first step.

Tanya Fox 36:00
Yeah. And I think the other thing that I always do is when I pick a goal, I sit down and go, Okay, that’s great that that, you know, that I want that. It’s, you know, but am I willing to do the work? So a lot of people go, I want I want millions of dollars, that’s great. But are you willing to put the time in because you don’t just get it, the only time you get it is if you win the lottery. So how much work does it take to get that skill that you want? And are you willing to do that, like people go, I think it’d be great. If I could like, fix my own car, I’d save so much money. That’s great. Are you ready to put the two to three years? And are you ready to go and internship, you know, with a mechanic and learn how to do that? No? Okay, well, then, then maybe you don’t really want that goal. And, and I think like what you were saying to about, I think ROI is such you know, return on investment is such a big conversation that people have, and, you know, you hear it so much. And I think we need to get rid of ROI, and start getting our o h return on happiness. So is what we’re doing bringing us joy, because at the end of the day, you’re not going to sit there, you know, when all is said and done. And you’re you know, you’re in your last moments and go, I wish I had more money. You’re gonna say, I wish I had more time I wish I had more laughs So are you are you creating a return of happiness for what you’re doing. And if not, then shift, then pivot. Because at the end of the day, that’s what you’re going to remember.

Voiceover by Josh 37:33
Head to Interstellar dot show, and find all the resources mentioned in today’s episode, plus, discover powerful training, which will help you grow, work and live smarter, visit Interstellar dot show today and begin your adventure.

Andrew Bull 37:52
So another good thing to do is to think about how other people might think about you as a person. That’s a good exercise as well. You know, how would you like your kids to describe you, as you know, an ever present parent, or someone who is just a ghost, and never actually there for them? You know, these are these are thoughts that we’re having. Because you don’t want to get you don’t want to spend 20 years locked inside your business and realize you’ve arrived at a point where people around you think these kinds of things about you. And you never took the time to like address, address those issues, which I think are big, important issues to address.

Tanya Fox 38:29
And it’s, you know, we’re in a society where comparison is a huge thing. And it’s hard and I still struggle with it. Right? I still think you know, gosh, I work too much. I’m not around my, you know, I’m not spending enough time with my son. And then but I sit and have those conversations with people I sit and say to him, you know, do you do you want more time with me? Like, do you feel you’re not having enough time with me? Because of course, I’ve put all this guilt on me like, I’m not spending enough time with him. He’s not getting quality time. We’re not like playing games and going snowshoeing and all of this other stuff. I see all of these other people doing and he’s like, Mom, I’m 14, I would really rather if I just never have to see you. And I’m like, ouch. Right. But in the meantime, here, I was thinking I was like taking his childhood away from him. But I never asked him the question. And I think back to you know, my own childhood. And, you know, I had a conversation just last week with my mom. And she was saying, you know, gosh, I’m so glad that you never had to struggle like I did in raising your family. And I was like, What are you talking about? And she was like, Well, you know, I mean, like, we lived like paycheck to paycheck, and I struggled sometimes. And sometimes we didn’t have enough food and I was like, What? Like, it was such a weird thing. But it was so funny how we lived in we lived exactly the same experience. But to me, I have a wonderful childhood. Like, oh, sometimes we would have pancakes for supper that I was so that was like my favorite day and my mom was like, I didn’t have enough money to like buy meat. So to her experience was like, she was so poor, she had to feed her kid pancakes. Meanwhile, we’re like, well, this is the best thing in the world. Right? And, and I do that with my son now, hey, it’s Pancake Day, like, it’s breakfast for supper. So sometimes I think that, you know, we sort of we just don’t ask the question. So I think it’s important to to say, you know, would you like to spend some more time with me? Do you feel like you’re not getting enough with me? And then, you know, take some time to be okay with the answer, because sometimes the answer is, No,

Andrew Bull 40:30
I’m good. Yeah, it’s not quite what you imagined.

Tanya Fox 40:34
You want everybody to go? Yes. Oh, my God, I would love some more time with you. And sometimes, like, when it comes to like a spouse, it’s it’s understanding like, is that time going to be good? That we, you know, that we spend together? Because, when, to give a personal example, when we sold the franchise business, my husband decided to take some time off. I did not. So to him, he was like, hey, do you want to have like three hour coffees and I was like, You need to find a job? Because this is not working anymore. Right. But to him, we never had that conversation of what do we want our time to look like? So it’s really, you know, asking those questions and asking them of yourself, do you want more time with yourself? You know, and, and being honest with the answers, because sometimes we, you know, I say, do a little bit of a cleanse, if at all possible, take four days away from social media, where you don’t even look at it. There’s lots of automation you can do. So you’ll still be relevant. But take four days away, and then ask yourself these questions. That’s really easy for me to do,

Andrew Bull 41:39
because I’m terrible at social media. I’m hardly ever on it. So I’m already winning that one.

Tanya Fox 41:44
Yeah. So it just helps to sort of clear them and you shove what everybody else is doing. Don’t worry about what everyone else is doing. Because they’re not worrying what you’re doing. Yeah. Okay. So and, and, and be okay with, you know, with whatever answers come your way, you know, take a breath with them, really let them sit with you, and then make the decision that is best for you. Because at the end of the day, that’s all that matters.

Andrew Bull 42:07
Yeah. So, so what we’re kind of just to recap on that last point, when it comes to thinking about the future of your business, it’s good to think about how your life is impacting other people around you. Whether they want more time with you or not, or not, yeah, it’s just good to be conscious about that stuff. Because obviously, you know, you’re important to them, they’re important to you, you want to make sure everything’s working for everyone. And you don’t want to get to that point where in 10 years time, you’ve been absent without leave, as I like to say, and then you turn around and go, Oh, where’s everyone gone? Why were they all just waiting around for me to turn back up again, in my own life? One, one final thing I just want to talk about. And it’s, it’s about something you mentioned already. And it’s to do with, you know, everyone has an exit strategy, at some point from their business. And I think, whether you like it or not, that always happens, right? Whether you die, you know, whether you’re forced to medically retire or your business goes bankrupt, or whatever, at some point, you’re going to, you’re going to exit your business. And I think it’s really good to think about what that exit will be, you know, what state you’re going to leave it in and on what terms you want to leave, is that, but it’s just some final advice that you can give people checking out the show today, of how they can think about having a better exit strategy from their business.

Tanya Fox 43:30
I think it’s important to have a few. So like you said, there’s various reasons why you leave, whether it’s for medical reasons, or you’re just sick of it. I mean, you can’t really go I’m tired of people. And I don’t want to do this anymore.

Andrew Bull 43:43
I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore.

Tanya Fox 43:47
So it’s really just having a few different versions of what you you know, what you ideally would like that to look like. And of course, there’s a lot of times where people go, Why don’t want to think about that. I know, you don’t want to think about that. We don’t want to think about our death either. But we all write wills. So it’s almost like writing a will for your business. What do you want to happen to this when you leave? And I don’t necessarily mean by death, I just mean, like, when you want to go, is this something that you want to sell? Because the thing is, is that when you have a clear idea of a few different ways that you would like to exit the business, your path becomes a little bit clearer. So for example, if you decide that you want to leave your businesses and this is like a family legacy that you want to start, then are you gearing that is that working? You know, because you might have children that are small. And you say I want to leave my business to them so that they can carry on the name that they can that they’ll you know, have the success that I’ve had and your kids like, I don’t want this business at all like don’t give this to me.

Andrew Bull 44:52
Yeah, I don’t want to run a dry creek cleaning franchise.

Tanya Fox 44:55
Yeah. What makes you think I don’t want I don’t want this God I move in the second I turn eight And like I’m out? No. So I think it’s, you know, and really constantly re looking at that exit strategy. And I’m not talking about every day. But if something big changes in your business, go back and look, is this still kind of kind of what I’m thinking about? Does this need to change? Did I find out that my kids don’t want this business now how you know, now what do I want to do with it? So those decisions are something this isn’t a doc, this is a living document. So it’s not going to be something that’s like, that’s it, I’ve made this plan, this is the way it’s going to end when it goes down. This is the way it’s going down. Life doesn’t happen that way. But really making those those you know, those those conscious efforts of constantly changing that and looking at that, and going Am I heading in this direction, is the way I leave franchising and growing it really big is the way I leave passing it down is the way I leave just shutting the doors and walking away, like shutting the lights off at five. And that’s it. That’s the last day. Is it a big party? Is it you know, it has to fit with your personality, but really sit down and think about that today? If I had to leave my business, what what would I want that to be? If I had to go? How would I do it? And then say, five or 10 years, I want to leave my business, and it’s gonna change as your age changes. It just does mine. My exit strategy is not the same as when I was 20. When I was 20, I would just be like, man, let’s move on to the next thing. I’m yeah, now I’m like, Huh, I got a family got kids. I got to think a little bit harder about this. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, it’s, it’s good to, I think it’s good to, you know, you can build it up, you could be like, Oh, no, we’re gonna have a huge party, and there’ll be a parade, and that’s fine. If that’s how you want to lead. Great. Let’s work towards that goal.

Andrew Bull 46:45
What wonderful advice. Thank you, Tanya. That’s, that’s amazing. And just to read, like, we haven’t really talked too much about what you offer in terms of your, your service. So maybe we should just touch on that quickly. So people know why they should get in touch with you.

Tanya Fox 47:01
Yeah, so what I usually do is I for all of your listeners, I’m going to offer a free 30 minute call with me. So that we can sit down and just talk about like where they’re at with their business right now. And what I you know, and and sort of give them an idea of some things that they need to think about. So there’s, there’s no other obligation to that I’ll just be having a conversation and given them my two cents. And then beyond that, I offer coaching where I actually come in and do full assessments on the businesses. So I can sit down with them go through their financials, I’ve 23 years experience in, in, you know, the financial aspect of of businesses. So we really sit down do a deep dive, where is your business? Where do you want to see it go ways that you can improve? Or how do you make that exit strategy? So I also have that as well. If people are like, Nope, I know I want out, then I can sit and help them plan that exit strategy that we were talking about that? How do they want that to look? And then how do we implement to make that happen?

Andrew Bull 48:04
Fantastic. Where can people find about, you know, can make that first meeting with you? Where can people find that.

Tanya Fox 48:12
So they just can head over to my website at Fox talks. I’m going to put a little link bear with the episode and then they can book the appointment and with me and and also find other information about what they’re doing. And everywhere, all my social media and everything is on there. So at any time, people can always just send me an email, and, and let me know what they’re thinking and see if we can work together. I love conversations. They’re my they’re the that’s my passion.

Andrew Bull 48:41
I can tell. I can tell you’ve certainly got a lot to say and like been such an awesome guest on today’s show. So thanks so much for all your amazing insights. It’s been a great episode. And look forward to talking with you again soon. Oh, it’s been such a pleasure. Thank you, Andrew. That was an amazing interview with Tanya from Fox talks business. I really enjoyed talking with Tanya. She’s got a wealth of experience when it comes to exiting a business and helping business owners think about their strategy and whether they should stick twist or flop with their business, right? Should they keep going? Should they invest more? Or is it time to step away? It was it was a brilliant interview. And I definitely recommend checking out Tanya and possibly booking a meeting with her. If you want to do that. One of the things I would say is to you, that you that I think you should live your life for you and not for other people. Of course you’ve got other people around you that you care about your friends, family loved ones and they need to be considered. But when it comes to whether you keep going with your business, or whether you fold it and do something else, really, that decision can only come down to you and whether you decide to keep going With a business or close it, you can’t be guaranteed whatever decision you make is going to positively or negatively affect someone’s opinion of you. You can’t you can’t control their opinion. So ultimately, the one thing you can control is your own life, and live for your own expectations and live for what you want your life to be. So my big piece of advice for you at the end of today’s episode is make these big decisions about your business for you, not for what you extend for other people’s expectations and what you hope they’ll think of you. Do it for you. So, thanks for tuning in to another episode of the interstellar business show. Please subscribe if you haven’t already done so. And I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

Voiceover by Josh 50:48
Thanks for listening to the interstellar business show. This podcast was sponsored by the interstellar report, ready to discover the powerful forces that influence the success of leaders like you. Head to Interstellar.Report. And get a brilliant results. A personalized report, which reveals your strengths and weaknesses in six key areas. Visit Interstellar dots report and discover the insights, roadblocks and opportunities you’ve been missing. Plus, get free personalized training that will help you grow, work and live smarter. Go to Interstellar dot report today and start your adventure.

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