Andrew Bull
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the interstellar business Show. I’m so pleased that you’ve joined me today. I’m your host, Andrew Bull. And today we’re going to be discussing everything about pay per click advertising, I’m joined by experts in this area, Thomas green, we’re going to be discussing their myths of pay per click some of the big mistakes that people around it and how you can make the most of it and take the right first steps to maximizing this platform and getting new leads and new interest in your business. But before I deliver, and Thomas delivers all his amazing insights and knowledge on pay per click, there’s a short message about a free business report that I have created just for business leaders like you.

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Andrew Bull
I’m really pleased to have on the show today, Thomas green from ethical marketing survey. So welcome to the show, Thomas.

Thomas Green
Thank you, Andrew, how you doing?

Andrew Bull
Yeah, I’m good. Thanks.

Can you tell us a bit about yourself and your business? Sure. I’m a business owner, and author, like you say director of ethical marketing service, which is a digital marketing agency. And I post out a lot of business education on my social profiles, if you are looking for that type of content. Okay, cool. So big is a big speciality of yours pay per click, would that be right pay per click advertising?

Thomas Green
Yes, we do. With I’d say, let’s say let’s say a majority of what we do ethical marketing service. Okay. All right. Cool. And just just to like, I think most people know what Pay Per Click is, but there might be a small minority audience aren’t familiar Pay Per Click are kind of the adverts that you might see at the top of Google search results where it says ad, or maybe you see an ad in like your Facebook stream. that that would be a pay per click ad, right. Exactly. Yeah. Okay, cool. There’s some big myths that surround pay per click, uh, you know, for example, that you can’t make money with pay per click or or anything like that. I think if that is a myth that you can’t make money with pay per click, I’m happy to go into it. I haven’t actually heard that before. But in terms of whether that’s factually correct, I would say it’s, it’s not correct at all, I think some people or some businesses may struggle to, for example, make make money with pay per click, if they’re in a particularly competitive niche. Or perhaps if they haven’t, given the timeframe, perhaps. But the I think the biggest one that I see that’s repetitive is that there is such a thing as a hack in relation to PPC.

So, you know, it is very much cause and effect. So if you, if you have a good education, and you apply that those learnings that you have, and that you’re continually testing, as it’s referred to, then, you know, that’s that’s how you get good results from PPC, there’s no such thing as you know, hacking it in, I suppose it depends somewhat on the definition. But there isn’t any quick when to turn something from being a, you know, a, an endeavor that takes time and effort from being something that you don’t have to try very hard out. Does that make sense?

Andrew Bull
Yes, it does make that makes that makes so there’s no, yeah, there’s ultimately, there’s no shortcuts with a lot of this stuff you have to put in the time to get to get the result. Exactly. Um, would you say, uh, you know, do you think people are still attracted to adverts? Do you think there’s any kind of burnout towards advertising at all that that stuff that, you know, people still want to engage with them? Like they always have?

Thomas Green
I think it is an ongoing process. And an example of that is, when Google first introduced their their adverts to the search engine, they look very different to what they look like now. And over time, they’ve sort of blended them slightly, to make them look more like the natural search results. So it is kind of a, I think, if they were all relevant, and they weren’t sort of pushy in the sense that that wouldn’t be a problem. But there is this sort of ongoing improvements that they make to the ads as a result of people maybe losing their patience with them somewhat. But it hasn’t sort of done anything to the performance of of the ads themselves. They’re still they’re still just as they perform just as well as they ever have. Maybe even better based on the improvements that have been made.

Andrew Bull
Interesting. And how did you feel about SEO? Like set, you know, let’s say I’ve got a limited amount of money to invest. Some people might date actually, if I invest in pay per click, that money’s going to be gone by next year. Whereas if I invest in blog posts, that money will count will kind of stick around a bit longer. But have you got an answer to that or thoughts around that?

Thomas Green
Well, the first thing to know around any marketing method is that you shouldn’t be relying on one source of marketing for your business. So because if that one source of customers goes away, then you’re essentially one step away from having a business with no customers. So I would never rely on on one source. So if you can get customers from multiple different marketing mediums, then I would encourage that, I wouldn’t say ever that you should only rely on PPC, in terms of what you decide to put your budget towards, is quite subjective, because it depends on a what’s worked previously, the type of industry that you’re in, and also how quick you’re looking at getting a return from that marketing spend. So if we just take your example, which is PPC versus SEO, PPC can return you can get a return on your investment almost immediately. So within within either the same day or the following day, you can see a return from that money. Whereas with SEO is a very slow burn. So if you’re let’s say you’re starting off with a website, and you’re looking to rank that organically, a quoted timeframe for a new site is something like six months, if you see it at all. It I wouldn’t say don’t do SEO, because you can you can do well from SEO very much. But it’s just very different in terms of what your how quickly you’re looking for that return and lots of different things, what type of return you’re going to get that sort of thing. But like I say, it would be better to do both, and it would do one. So although you know, we do a lot of PPC, I don’t advocate only doing PPC is just one part of your marketing strategy. Okay.

Andrew Bull
All right. Sure. And Gigi, so yeah, it makes sense to have like a wide approach to these things. And they all support each other as well. Because if you send someone to your website from a play, pay per click, pay per click advert, it probably be a great thing to have some very authoritative blog posts on your website. Anyway, that’s going to help the conversion process, right.

Thomas Green
Yeah. And that as well as you can do remarketing with PPC, and you do remarketing to any person who’s visited your website from any source. So if you’re also getting traffic from SEO, that can also help your PPC efforts as well.

Andrew Bull
Okay, brilliant. So there’s like a real organic hybrid approach that we can employ here. Awesome. And what trends do you think are going to be driving pay per click in 2021, because we’re we’re at a time of amazingly huge trends and disruptions and changes. So I’m just wondering how you see it playing out over the next 12 months,

Thomas Green
I think a lot of the ad platforms are trying to implement more automation. So you see that with, you know, the way that you pay for your ads, for example. So instead of a more manual approach, where you decide exactly what you’re willing to pay in each instance, the machine learning as they refer to it, that is, they encourage that more and more. So I think that they’ll they’ll attempt to add that as much as they can. And also another trend is personalization. So Google ads, introduced more demographics, and different types of targeting to go along with the typical keyword bidding that you would you might see. So not only can you bid on a particular search term, you can also decide whether you want a particular age range to see that, that ad, and also maybe a particular gender, and so you can you can be much more specialized in who you’re trying to reach with your advertising. I think that will continue.

Andrew Bull
Interesting. And what’s what’s happening right now in terms of wasted clicks. So in terms of bought and especially dark, wasted clicks, which is where in the worst in the worst possible scenario, I suppose is there’s a marketing agency a marketing agency B In the end, they both serve a dentist in the same city, right? And so every time what the dead the adverts for dentist a comes up the marketing agency for the opposition go and click on those adverts to like, get rid of the budget of their right the rival dentist and we’re in the advertising campaign. What’s happening with that right now is that is that a thing that we should be that people should worry about or it’s not not such a big deal these days,

Thomas Green
I can tell you what Google’s position is on it. And also what what I and I anticipate the case to be, which is, there is a, there is a certain percentage of waste in relation to what you’re referring to. So you can’t stop someone searching for a particular term and then clicking on an ad. But in terms of whether they do it frequently, if it were to be frequently, Google automatically filters that out. So you can only click on an ad a certain number of times. And if it were, for example, a bot, then Google automatically refunds you based on that activity. There is a process that you can go through where if you think that you’re a victim of what they call click fraud, then you can go to Google and say, here’s the example of why I think I’ve been a victim of it, and they’ll they’ll investigate it. But presumably, what they state is that the vast majority of cases, is already been investigated and refunded to you. I don’t think that’s as big a problem as it’s made out to be. And there are some services, which claim to be able to filter it out. But the way I look at it is that Google, for example, is one of the biggest tech companies in the world and has the most, you know, advanced technology. There isn’t a company, which is going to be able to filter out what Google can’t, if you see what I mean. So

Andrew Bull
they’ve got the biggest tech weapons already for dealing with that challenge, which is intrinsic to their big huge part of their business. Yeah, already. So in a way, you’re saying, don’t worry about it too much, Google will handle a lot of that stuff for you.

Thomas Green
Well, what I say is you you have to focus on what you can control. So I did a I did a video on click fraud along with what Google statements are, and the what I think you can’t possibly control whether competitors click on your ads, but what you can control is how you can improve as a business and also your marketing. So in order to do better, you need to be better as the sort of the summary of what it was. And you can actually look in the back end of Google ads and see whether or not you’ve been refunded. They refer to it as invalid clicks. And you’re regularly getting refunds from invalid clicks. So like I say, My position is that it’s not as big a deal as as it’s made out to be.

Andrew Bull
Okay, cool. All right. So, so moving on thinking about people’s financial situations, and that that that it might have been a tough year, for some businesses out there, and they’ve lost big accounts or clients. Should they be thinking about business? Sure, businesses in that position, think about using Pay Per Click as a way of helping them recover? Or is it? Is it too high risk?

Thomas Green
Well, I always encourage, if it’s, for example, a first time for a business advertising on on one of these platforms, I always encourage people to only spend what they can afford, because there is no way for anyone to say in advance what kind of results that you will definitely get. You can make estimates or projections based on certain data. But anyone who can tap who says that you’ll definitely get a certain result is not being honest. So if that’s the case, then you should only advertise with money that you can actually afford to potentially lose. And the other way that I look at it is, is it worth testing on a marketing platform, which is one of the biggest search engines in the world, or, for example, one of the one of the biggest social media companies in the world where, you know, they make 10s of billions from from advertising as a result of businesses wanting to be on there. And my position would be if you have a business, it’s definitely worth testing it. But you should only test it if you’ve got money that you can afford to not get a return from. Okay. All right. That’s, that’s,

Andrew Bull
that’s great advice. Thanks for sharing that and what mistakes do people often make with pay per click?

Thomas Green
I refer to it as step one. And basically, there’s a load of advanced features within the back end of lots of these advertising platforms. But often what people tend to get wrong is getting in front of An actual potential prospect. So you can spend all sorts of time doing, you know, advanced stuff. But if you’re not getting in front of someone who actually has the potential to be a customer, then you’ve got it wrong from the start, which is step one. And, you know, that might be a keyword, for example. So there are two different things within Google ads. One is the keyword, and one is the search term. So if you take a local business like a plumber, you would add a keyword for example, plumber as a keyword. And then if you look at the search terms, you might find that in order to, if that person has clicked on the ad, you might find that they actually typed plumber job, for example. So it might be a person who’s looking for a job as a plumber, and they click the ad, and your advertising budget might be wasted when referring to that keyword. So that is what I would focus on. And what often people make mistakes with is just that first step, sometimes called intent. So what is the intent of the person who’s searching?

Andrew Bull
Okay, yeah, I guess you could lose a lot of your money on how to be a plumber, or plumber videos or plumber, DIY, some qualifications, courses,

Unknown Speaker
apprenticeships, all those types of things that can be heavily searched, and you can lose money on if

Andrew Bull
you don’t block them, or funny plumbing videos, that kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. What makes your approach different, you know, the ethical marketing service? How do you approach things in a different way to other marketing and public companies.

Unknown Speaker
So the ethical part of the business is, we’ve got a mission statement, which says that we want to be the most trustworthy agency that exists. And in order to sort of back that up, what the USP is, is the, we offer a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. Which means that if someone hires us in the first 30 days for any reason, they can get their money back if they feel like they deserve it. And the whole, the whole, the mission statement basically drives the whole company, so and we, I think it’s a more sustainable way to do business. So if you’ve ever heard of Earl Nightingale, he basically said that, if honesty didn’t exist, it should be created by someone in order to do well in business. So I just think it’s a better way to go about it. Don’t miss

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Andrew Bull
Moving on to talking about teams. Do you provide Pay Per Click training for for any of your clients teams? Do you ever have that hybrid approach to to working with people?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, sometimes it’s requested. So there are a couple of scenarios, one of them being that in before they want to take up the actual management, which we offer offer, they also asked for, you know, I need to be able to understand this service more because it’s, it can be very jargony. So you can throw out terms, which just mean nothing to most businesses. So they asked for training before and then go for management after. But then there are also people that are, you know, we don’t really want to outsource this, but we do need some training. So will you do that? It’s a small part of the business, but it’s not. It’s not the majority of what we do.

Andrew Bull
Okay, interesting. Okay, I was quite interested in that pathway of training people and then that should move on to just wanting, wanting you to manage manage anyway. Yeah, that’s very interesting. And so do you have a team there? Thomas?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, we’ve we just had someone leave. But we we’ve got a team of nine Google Ads professionals now. So we probably look at replacing that person. But we we get everyone to go through their their Google ads, exams, and they all get training, that sort of thing.

Andrew Bull
Brilliant. Okay, and how did you go? How do you go about building your team or building that team?

Unknown Speaker
Well, we look typically for we, there is an option to just hire people already who are already doing the job. We, what the meaning that we get from the company is actually creating jobs for people who wouldn’t otherwise have one. So I feel that if we hired existing PPC professionals that we wouldn’t necessarily be contributing to society, for example. So what we do is we hire for example, marketing graduates or people who have some form of marketing background, and then we train those people up and invest in the person. And even if it were the case that let’s say they leave, you know, months later or whatever, I think it’s still rewarding thing to be able to say that you help that person get from A to B. So we look at it as a, an investment in the person.

Andrew Bull
Okay, brilliant. Fantastic. I love that. I love that. That whole ethos for creating jobs like so, you know, congratulations to you. And like that’s brilliant. Especially right now we need more jobs created. So did you did you have a go at building a remote team? I think you mentioned when we spoke previous to the call that you’d had some experience with that before?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I took on the it wasn’t one that I purposefully set out to do. But have you ever been exposed to people who say, you know, you don’t, you don’t need any staff to do this, you know, you can just hire freelancers, and they’ll do all this for you. So I started out the company doing that, which is it was not successful, to say the least you get, you know, every now and again, you get a good couple of freelancers, or whatever. But often they’ll move on to better things, or they’ll get full with work and the people. And we just got so many, for lack of a better term bad freelancers, that it was almost is unappealing to me. So we do absolutely everything in house as a as a selling point for the business, because, you know, often the clients won’t know who’s working their accounts if you if you have multiple freelancers, but also just as a, you know, as a selfish thing as well, which is, it’s just much more rewarding and much more, you get better result, in my view in having people in an office who are employees.

Andrew Bull
Okay, all right, brilliant. Well, I’m glad I’m glad I’m glad to hear that jet like a your team all still in the office now, because of the current restrictions, or the some of them at home

Unknown Speaker
or all of them are at home, unfortunately. Okay. But in terms of what the choice would be, I think it would be better as a as a team and a company to have everyone in the office. But at the same time, if you look at the flip side of that, you know, I wouldn’t want to be responsible for anyone getting COVID or anyone’s family member, so everyone’s remote at the moment.

Andrew Bull
Sure. GG, do you think there’ll be a knock on long term in terms of how people were? I mean, your business is based in Brighton. Right?

Unknown Speaker
We’re in Worthing

Andrew Bull
so quite close to Brighton. Okay. It’s but all your all your team members quite local to that area, then. Yeah. So they don’t have a big commute. Anyway, I, I suspect, I guess it’s kind of different to the London situation where people can find themselves commuting for an hour and a half each way to a job, or I think it will become more The thing about being able to work remotely, I think that there’ll be an overhang that we have moving on. So what do you do with your team to help them level up their performance and capabilities? What have you got in place for that?

Unknown Speaker
Well, we subscribe to an online course platform. So that there’s one we use, which is LinkedIn learning where you can basically get a course on almost anything digital. We’ve also given people a particular day to learn about a specific topic. So we ask, we tend to ask the staff if there’s something that they want to learn that they’re passionate about. So if someone’s currently doing Google ads, but they want to learn, for example, web development, I’ll you know, get them a project in relation to web development. And I’ll give them some time in order to learn that type of thing. So what I want to try and avoid is people basically getting bored or unfulfilled with the work that they’re doing. And also, we have the ability to find work, sort of that wheel. So if it were the case that someone started getting really good at web development, and we had that person who was in the office and wanting that work, then I could source it. And then basically your instead of it, saying we’re a company and we do this, so you have to work that way. It’s more of a kind of, if you want, if you have a passion about a particular topic we can mold your job into into that if that’s what you’re passionate about. Brilliant.

Andrew Bull
That sounds that sounds great. And what about like encouraging your team to take ownership of projects do you have? Is it the case that your business is so structured that they don’t need to do that or you’d like them to grab hold of something and run with it?

Unknown Speaker
I tend to I tend to invest so much in the person and then capabilities that if they get stuck or the you know, they can always come and ask me because, you know, I like to help people anyway. But when someone is capable, and they have you know, help if they need it, or if they’re, you know if they actually enjoy what they’re doing. I kind of think that the you winning most of the battle when you’re doing it that way. We’ve put some things in place as a result of it. You know, people working from home in order to be responsible, but generally speaking, I’m fairly opposed to the concept of micromanagement. So I like people to have a bit of freedom.

Andrew Bull
That’s good to hear. That’s, that’s, great to hear. I said, Oh, would you averages? Do you have like a project management tool that you use? I’m really always interested interested to hear about that.

Unknown Speaker
Do you mean, from the perspective of working remotely or, you know, processing that kind of,

Andrew Bull
yeah, like, if you have a stack of tasks and projects, I’m just wondering how you might track that in the business.

Unknown Speaker
We have you used Trello for a long time to make notes, and the notes kind of system so that the idea is that if someone was off for any reason that another person could then take over, and they wouldn’t necessarily have to speak to anyone, all those notes are already in the system. And when we went remote, we sort of implemented hubstaff as a result of not really having any meat, you can’t basically see anyone so that that kind of helps in relation to remote working. Awesome.

Andrew Bull
Okay, so this, like, we just touched briefly on there on about the notion of redundancy in terms of someone not being around and therefore having a fallback, like accessing information in Trello. So that brings me on nicely to my next couple of questions, which is about you personally, as a leader, and your business? And like, would you say, you’re the kind of person who’s working on your business or working in your business?

Unknown Speaker
I have done both. So I have spent a long time working in the business. And I found that as soon as I started working on the business, it just grew so much more. And so I know, it’s not necessarily a new concept. And once you have heard it, or once you know it, then it’s kind of obvious. But it was just, it was the biggest thing, which had the biggest impact in terms of growth, just start, as you say, working on it, rather than in it. Because if you take on all the work, you know, it can only grow as big as what you can do.

Andrew Bull
Okay. And what was what was the key for that transformation?

Unknown Speaker
It was, I think, the biggest thing that I can share with other people, there’s just a book, and the book is called the myth. And it’s sort of like a story or a parable. And it’s kind of a little bit cheesy, I would say, but if you’re looking, if you’re a business owner, and you’re considering that concept, then I’d really recommend reading that because it’s just, it just made a huge, huge difference to, to our business.

Andrew Bull
Yeah, super, super brilliant book. It’s one I’ve read as well. Yeah. Fantastic. And so what in the future? Do you think you’ll be your you’ll be stalking, stepping back from the business? Is that something you’re planning planning to do? At some point, you think at some point, you’re just being the chairman role or something like that?

Unknown Speaker
I’ve stepped back quite away. So it’s not like I’m, I mean, typically what I do is just I, I help people, as a person who can, who they can go to, in order to, you know, address problems, that sort of thing. But in terms of, there’s a concept that I heard, which is, and I, I’m not 100% sure on the exit strategy yet. But the one thing I heard was, was, in order to, for example, Sell a Business, it needs to be a product in the way that you know, a finished product. And that means that you have to be out of it. So every part of it. And so I’d like to get it to that point where whether I decide to go in or not. It’s a finished article if I decided to sell it, but I’ve got a lot further to go yet. So it’s not it’s not going to be something soon. Okay.

Andrew Bull
All right. Yeah. A bit. It totally makes sense to build a system which isn’t dependent on one person, right? That’s what that’s what investors are looking for. Because if one person disappears, for whatever reason, then the business, there’s no business there. Right. So yeah, interesting. Yeah, really cool. And stepping back also helped you personally get a better work life balance as well.

Unknown Speaker
Well, the, the big thing that it allowed me to do was to ensure that, for example, sales and marketing had more of a focus. And one of the thing is sounds really obvious, but when you’re in the thick of it when you’re doing the operations. If you were to do both, let’s say you’re doing operations and you’re doing sales and marketing. It’s almost the case that you have a distance incentive to not get on more more business if you then have to fulfill it. Whereas if I have, you know, capable people who are doing the work, and I have capacity to do that, then really, you can go out and get as much businesses as you want or need. And that’s one of the additional things which made a big, big difference to, to the business. It’s to

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Andrew Bull
So let’s move back to pay per click. What steps can people take to get started if they you know, if I’m thinking about getting started with pay per click Pay Per Click? What are some of the important things to think about to begin with?

Unknown Speaker
The in terms of I mean, there are some small things, Google Ads offers a voucher where if you spend 25 pounds, and you get 75, in return for adspend. So you know, you can get 100 pounds worth of ad spend by only spending 25, which is a kind of a good thing. I would think very much about what makes you unique as a business. So there’s there’s a lot of me to businesses out there, where then really not offering anything. In addition, the phrase I like to say is what makes you different from all the options available to the potential prospect. So you need to have that in place because people aren’t just going to do business with you because you say you do a particular thing. And also, the Google ads or the PPC side of the equation is just really what I would say is one half of it. The other half is when someone goes to a particular website, what are they? What do they get when they get there? And I think that’s very underestimated. In relation to anything website based. So what’s your marketing? Like on your website? Is it congruent from from AD to, to website, that sort of thing?

Andrew Bull
Yeah, there’s a nice nice expression, I think the scent, right? I like is that like, does the scent carry across from the advert to what people that then smell? on your website? Are those things online? And, yeah, I think you have to think about how people will convert on the website as well or not just because, you know, a click click can be worth something. But I suppose you can remark it to people later. But if you’re just at some point, you need to know what that journey is going to be after the click,

Unknown Speaker
huh? Well, they do have metrics in the in the accounts, so they refer to it as conversion rate, but tends to the focus always tends to be on improving the conversion rate from the ads account rather than from both. So you can make a huge difference to the performance of ads based on what you do on your website.

Andrew Bull
Okay. Awesome. That’s, yeah, yeah. So do you do a consultant advise on that then, as well, on the on the website experience? Yeah. Okay.

Thomas Green
Yes. It’s something that I enjoy anyway. So.

Andrew Bull
Okay, brilliant. So what are the steps? So obviously, we’ve kind of covered some of the the steps already, so people have got to find the right keywords, then they’ve got to cut out the, the the keywords that are going to waste their money, I suppose. And then we’ve got to make sure our website is ready for for people to arrive at. So we want to send them to a page, at the bare minimum, we want to send them to a page where they can contact us right and become a lead. Like, like, if we don’t even have that capability on our website, then that’s probably said we should do even before baby click. What else might we need to what other steps might we need to put in place?

Unknown Speaker
Well, another kind of principle that I like to share? Is it thinking about it from the searcher or the visitors perspective? So a good question is, if you were looking for this type of service, would you inquire or would you become a customer of this business? And if you can really put yourself in that person’s place? And I think is a really easy question to answer. Because it comes back to that question, which is what makes you different than anyone else? If you’re just you know, putting out a vanilla flavored offer, like 5% off or something, it’s not enough. Whereas if you’re doing something really compelling, whether that be I mean, some people refer to it as like a lead magnet, you know, are you offering something which is zero risk for the person in exchange for their details, or, you know, is your marketing so good that it just makes them inquire anyway. I think about those things when, you know, that advice when when answering that type of question. Brilliant. And so

Andrew Bull
when should someone approach a business like yours? What What, what signals Do you think might be telling them to, they should reach out and approach you?

Unknown Speaker
I can tell you a lot of the scenarios that people do. And it’s sort of like similar to a question that you asked me about, you know, being involved in the operation. So some people will have a go at themselves. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing, if you’re willing to put the time and effort into learning it. But if it’s taking you away from other areas of your business, then it may well be bit more beneficial to, you know, outsource it. And then it means that you can focus on other things. And the idea of my business is that we can get a better result than you can get yourself because of the experience. And so that’s one scenario. Another might be, there are some shocking agencies out there. I don’t think it’s the case. In all instances, I’m not saying that, you know, I’m the only option. But there are a lot of agencies that will, for example, take a recurring fee, a management fee, and then not do anything for it. So if you think that you’re dealing with one of those types of companies, then it’s a it’s a regular thing we get. So you know, I paid a load of money to another agency, and then I found out that they weren’t doing anything.

Andrew Bull
Okay, interesting. Interesting. So, all right, brilliant. That’s great advice. really helpful. I think I know, it’s interesting, you’re talking about the DIY thing as well, which I think is a is a limiting belief, often people they think it’s easier just to do it themselves. But actually, they don’t realize the true cost of of taking that on themselves as well. So bringing up where can people reach out and contact you or learn more about what you do?

Unknown Speaker
website is ethical marketing service calm, you’ll be able to see all the various services we offer. And also at the bottom of the page, you’ll see all their social links. So you can choose if you if you want to follow you can choose your preferred method. So that’s a that’s an easy place to find them all.

Andrew Bull
Brilliant. All right. Well, thanks for coming on the show today. Thomas, great talking with you.

Thomas Green
My pleasure. And speak to you soon.

Andrew Bull
So I had a great time talking with Thomas green today in the interview, and I thought he had so much helpful advice to share about pay per click, one thing I would say to you, if you’re thinking about getting started pay with pay per click, start small test the water, you don’t need to allocate all of your budget at once to running a new project in a new area. Try a very small test, maybe try one product or one service in a limited location. And just see how your budget works out in that area and see, see if it’s working. And then once you understand that your pipelines working and that you’ve got everything in order, the advert, the audience, you’re targeted, and then the landing page where the people convert, then you get and you know, it’s actually working, then you can think about scaling up your budget and adding more products or advertising in more regions. The key is to start small test that something works if it doesn’t adapt, and just keep changing until it does work. And then at that point, then you can you can go big. So I’d say test testing is key. And that’s certainly something I found, and I hope you enjoy today’s episode. If you haven’t already, go and check out my business report or Interstellar dot report. Thanks again for joining me and I’ll see you on the next episode.

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai